toxic news and twitter fights with Dave & Lisa

0:12 But I guess I should probably introduce the show. So we just jumped in. that's okay now i'll take it um so i'm travis and this is bestie approved i'm obviously here without emma because she literally just had her baby um so that's super fun and exciting and he's happy he's healthy he's perfect and he's adorable um but i actually have two new podcast friends here uh david and lisa from outrage overload and i Would love for you guys to introduce yourselves and tell us a little bit about yourselves. Well, I'm Lisa. I've been a David Beckmeyer wrangler for more years than I'd like to count. But we started our show because we were not having any time to talk to each other.

1:07 So we started saying, let's start talking. Make this time. We're going to talk what's going on. And if someone listens, fine. Great. I love that. Yeah. So I'm David Beckmeyer. So, yeah. So the show that Lisa and I do together is called This Week in Outrage. The overall kind of media empire, if you will, is called Outrage Overload. And our sort of serious show there that's a Connors Institute podcast is called Outrage Overload. And that's the one that. Where I interview like scientists and like a serious thing, it's the opposite of what we're doing tonight. I interview scientists and researchers and practitioners and stuff like that. And we talk about sort of toxic polarization and bridge building and kind of rebuilding our divides and things like that.

1:51 That's awesome. That's awesome. And so when you reached out to me originally, I think the way you kind of introduced yourself was like you're trying to find some middle ground. And I think right now that's. really, really, really what this country needs. So I guess what sparked the, the, like that idea, I guess. Yeah. I mean, I think you hear it from a lot of people. If you go and talk, talk out there to folks that a lot of people are, you know, just at their kind of wits end of of of this kind of anger like there's this idea of it was a bunch of research on it um hidden tribes i did some research and kind of came out with this idea of a exhausted majority where like a lot of people are kind of over it with the two parties fighting all the time and and kind of not really giving us great options you know when that comes up and so there's you know there's this huge majority of people that really don't like either party don't really like the options they don't like the vitriol they don't like the anger and the fighting all the time but they But you don't know that they're a majority because their voices have sort of been silenced by these louder voices that really give this perception that everybody is angry all the time and isn't ready for a conversation and all this kind of stuff. And those people are out there. Yeah, they exist. I'm not saying that's – it's naive to say they don't exist.

3:09 But it's a misperception to think that's how everybody is. Once you actually meet real people, they have a lot more. gray like this not that sort of i guess red and blue versus black and white it's not that clear cut that you're either in that bucket or that bucket people are kind of thinking about this different ways but there's all these kind of incentives to drive us into this thinking that the other people are terrible and and you know and then once you get that in your head because we kind of live in our bubbles and all that then you just think there's no one out there that on the other side that i that i can talk to and they're worse it's so it's not my fault it's their fault you know and we just keep it it's just like a spiral downwards as you get that kind of mindset going it gets worse and worse so i was living in that like everybody else right i was out there getting twitter fights you know and then and you know and i was caught in it i was watching the news and it was getting me mad all the time and and that was like that was like the trigger of like the or the signal that like this is really isn't right they're just trying to make me mad all the time it's working I'm just mad all the time.

4:05 I'm sitting on the couch yelling. I can't do anything sitting on the couch yelling, right? So that's kind of where I'm kind of a science nerd and a science geek. So maybe there's other people like me that would like to kind of research some of this and see what's out there. So I don't want to do my own research. I'm going to go talk to the people that do the research, right? So that's kind of what I thought is an interesting way to do it. And I thought a podcast was a – was a good way to do that because you go a little deeper right kind of more than a two minute segment we can talk to somebody for a little bit longer and go a little deeper and i could so my role is kind of this guide to kind of bring the researchers that are doing the work and then bring them on and let them present and talk about it but make it accessible to you know just anybody that's kind of science curious you don't have to be a full -on math geek and this kind of stuff you don't have to know the ways that you do statistics and things like that you just kind of have have some logic and reason and be interested in the science and so we expose this research that's going on out there in a kind of you know funner more interesting way because there was some academic podcast doing some of this but they're like three hours long and it's kind of academic to academic and who wants to listen to that but other academics and so i thought you know maybe make something that would be a little more appealing to a broader audience nice i love that it's funny that you bring up like the twitter fights and everything because there's i put this on our list but there's a tweet that like resurfaces every couple of years but it's uh talks about it's someone saying like azalea banks is schizophrenic until i agree with her and then and then she's like she's the best voice ever and it's so funny that like it resurfaced when it did because like that's exactly

5:37 how i'm feeling about like candace owens right now like i'm just like I truly kind of want to know if there's like any research behind that, like behind like what what is going on with like people like Candace Owens and Marjorie Taylor Greene, where I'm like, I categorically disagree with everything that comes out of their mouths. But but now I'm like, oh, hey, maybe maybe there's something there and maybe we can find the middle ground there. We're we're hopeful, optimistic, I mean, hopeless, optimistic with Marjorie. Anytime she says the slightest little thing that we. slightly agree with we go we're getting her we're getting her back we she's well she's out there well and i yeah well yeah so there is this idea kind of in social science that have talked that that even political scientists have talked about this as well um you know kind of this idea of this kind of renegade character that can um do uh play these roles of like um how they have authority on one side and then and so that they can actually you know sort of point out these these criticisms on that side so you and they kind of are like these you know cross uh and and and you know you'd think we'd have somebody like you know liz cheney would be an example of that right like theoretically you didn't have anybody that was more sort of trusted and well known in the conservative world and then she sort of you know comes out against trump and but they don't it doesn't work like the whole thing that social scientists said would always work sort of didn't work but there is this idea these people that can cross cut like that that have they have enough sort of cachet on their

7:09 own side that they kind of, you know, make a point like that and start to, and in fact, I mean, the stuff that Marjorie Taylor Greene is saying, frankly, is exactly the kind of stuff that you want somebody to say. Now, you know, was she going to live up to it? Is she going to live up to it? All that. But, you know, this idea that, you know, she actually said, I'm sorry for being part of the problem. And, you know, I'm ready to talk across divides and all this kind of stuff. I mean, that's what you, that's the kind of thing these social scientists have been talking about. take that role on and you know so i don't know you know it'll be interesting so again it's like to say it's like i hate him until wow they're really saying good things now right well and that's that's the thing with marjorie taylor green right now where it like because when she started coming out and saying all of that i was like she's she's she wants to get reelected like that's that's what is happening right now and then she resigns and i'm like oh my was was she being serious like was she actually saying that she's sorry and like now she's kind of like bowing out of the game because the fallout is going to be that bad. Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting.

8:07 I don't know. Yeah, exactly. I don't know the answer to that because it's like, it's hard to sort of, I don't know. It's hard for me to armchair quarterback this because I kind of would not be, the resignation in some ways is not a surprise, but how quickly it happened. Like you say, how can you say that's not a surprise? It's totally a surprise. Well, once she did this kind of transition, you're like her path is probably, you know, her path towards future politics is probably being cut off, but, Like the speed at which that happened, though, it's being cut off with other politicians. But I think she's going to get the general public behind her. It's possible. I mean, she could be another populist that builds a populist groundswell kind of, you know, although, you know, there's a lot of now because of the stuff that, you know, like we see with like these fake accounts. There's a lot of stuff now. Maybe Trump wasn't as much a groundswell from the ground up as as it sort of looks like it is. Well, that's that's the thing is I cannot imagine that like MAGA like as as a concept as like as like this like idea that it's as big as it is. There's no way that like that many people are all in for Donald Trump.

9:16 And I have to believe that like a lot of what we were like seeing with like the the the obsession on Twitter probably was part of like what we're kind of like getting confirmation of now where it's like. like what what's her uh the daughter ivanka like her her biggest fan account was based out of what nigeria like come on yeah yeah so i think that maybe that it's not really as big as as it is i think you're right Well, and also whether it really originated, you know, kind of on the on the on the base or are, you know, on the streets and, you know, in these small towns or whether, you know, this kind of Russian influence or who knows what state actors maybe, you know, kind of started it and then it latched on, you know, as a populist movement. And then, you know, because we amplify it, the Russians don't have enough power on their own to do that or whoever state actor. We did it like it's our fault. We fell for it. But I do think that I was it. I think it was. it was your show that i was listening to i think with uh the guy austin that you guys had on where um what was it it's like for every one tweet from someone else like it sparks like what 10 000 or something is like the ratio so like yeah they absolutely if they didn't like the spark they absolutely absolutely lit a few more so no i yeah like it's it's a hundred percent like we're the accountable ones but yeah like you know we can do that all by ourselves i guess Right. Well, yeah, I mean,

10:48 that's kind of what I guess that's part of my, you know, complain about the whole. Well, you know, I mean, the problem is like we this goes so deep. Right. Because people just are not active civic participants. Right. Maybe we've had it easy for too long. I don't know all the reasons for it, but we're sort of passive. Right. We just let this stuff flow to us and we don't really take a role that much of a role in it. You know, it's kind of funny that we have all these, you know. folks like my show and, and, and other people like a lot of political commentators and they're talking about all these things and doing all, and you have all these, you know, political strategists and they're thinking about all this. Like most people are not just putting that energy in. Like they don't, they don't watch any news at all or read any news at all, like zero. Like there's so much research showing the vast majority of people just don't any, whatever news they're getting is coming to them sort of passively through other feeds. Well, and it's I think the people that are watching the news are probably watching the most toxic sources. And by the way, on both ends, like I like my audience knows I Emma and I are raging like borderline socialists in a lot of ways. But like I can look at both sides and like I look at MSNBC and I'm like, oh, my God, like we shut your mouth. Like, please stop talking because like you're making us look so bad. And then I look at Fox News and I'm like, I can't believe people. believe anything that comes out of their mouths so i guess like i don't think there's a source of information that like is actually like pure is not the word but i guess it's like you're not getting really great information

12:19 that's not designed to be polarizing from anywhere so yeah right i love when people say oh but i watch fox news just to see what the other side is saying No, you're just watching because you're entertained by it. Well, you know, and that's, you know, there's some, okay, that's fine. But in some sense, you're getting... They're not, nobody's doing that. Most people aren't doing that. But, you know, there's a lot of people that talk about that idea that, oh, you need to look at news from both sides or read news from both sides. That's kind of okay. But if you're looking at garbage on both sides, then you're just getting more garbage. Like you're not actually getting more informed. You can look at it from the perspective of a media analyst and say, what is the media trying to say? Because, you know, like you say, The left leaning programs and and and articles and journals and things, you know, kind of both do the same thing. They don't necessarily lie, although you could say people on the side on the right lies maybe a little bit more. But it's mostly not straight out lies. It's more they just kind of leave stuff out and then change the shape of it. Right. So that you get more angry because they're kind of leaving some stuff out most of the time. Like a lot of times when you go look at one of these stories that I don't know, even even Marjorie Taylor Greene or something said this thing or Trump said this thing often, even a lot of times.

13:29 And then you go. look at a little more and go, well, in context and a little bit more here, it's kind of Trump being Trump and it wasn't really that big of a deal. You know, some of these things that you can go look at or some of these other things that are being proposed sometimes. Now, the last nine months, maybe that's a little different, but there's a lot of these things when you go look at them, if you're looking at the left -leaning version of it, a lot of times it's exaggerated and just try it because it is trying to get you riled up and trying to get you mad. It's mad and it's the whole, if it bleeds, it leads and all that kind of stuff. And so it's all those incentive structures that they know. You know, they know how human brains work. And we all, whether you're on the left or right, you still have a human brain and you're still going to, we're all susceptible to all these tactics on us. So there's no, you know, so we all fall for it, you know, and it's a feel good thing, right? Like we feel morally. um superior if we keep seeing these things that show how bad the other side is so we like it in the moment doesn't really help us like we don't sleep better because of it and we don't have a better picture of the world or anything but we feel better in the moment because it kind of justifies that we made the right choice look how bad those people are i i guess i mean like i i don't love it but like i i guess if that's if that's like If that's how we're morally justifying it. But one of the things I put on my list, because this kind of like leads me into one of them. And you said Lisa was pretty familiar with this, is a family that like puts themselves on blast. And it's a podcast called The Necessary Conversation.

14:59 When I put it on the list, I was like, oh, surely they're going to like know exactly what this is. And you said you weren't super familiar, but Lisa is. 100 % familiar. I want to know your thoughts on it because I swear to God, when I first started seeing it, I was like, this is satire. This is not, this is not real. And then it's like, it, it, it's real life. Like these are real people and they're like, this is their actual belief. So at least, so I want to know what you think about this. Well, the more the, I, I only watch it on Instagram. So I only get the short clips. Right. And so they, so he, Chad's very good at cutting the, you know, the most.

15:39 sensational grab you know grab your uh your attention clips but um yes if you watch if you watch those clips um yes it's very disturbing um how right the parents are how right wing they are how much they support trump she the mom always wears a trump hat the dad won't listen to anything i'm kind of saying this for david's um benefit because he doesn't really know the dad all he says to the kids is that you're stupid both these both these kids are highly educated people I'm not quite sure what Chad does actually but she's a screenwriter for movies okay so and you know they keep saying the biggest mistake they ever made was letting Chad go to school in California that that ruined him he's indoctrinated 100 % that's what they say all the time Constantly.

16:36 Yeah. And that you're stupid. You're so stupid. You're so stupid. You're idiots. And the dad just, the dad is the most childish thing you've ever seen. He just is like, I'm not listening to you. You're so dumb. And there's, there was a big gap of time where the dad wasn't in any clips at all on Instagram. He just decided I'm not doing this anymore, but somehow the mom got it back. And the mom's always wearing a MAGA hat. For Halloween, she dressed up as Melania. It's so uncomfortable. It's very uncomfortable. But I do have to say, I do have to say, I have a little bit of hope for this family. The mom does tell the kids that she loves them. She does say, I hate these conversations with you. And I did get this sense that I'm trying, I kept trying to find this clip again, where she says, the only reason I agreed to do this show with you is so that we can have a regular life outside of this. So I think their agreement is, is that they only speak politics on this show and they don't speak it in their regular life. And that is the agreement actually. Yeah. And I say that is Bravo for them to be able to do that. And then, but she does say she loves them. Although she does say we never made any mistakes as parents.

18:04 David, have you made any mistakes as a parent? Of course not. Yes. I mean, we, our kid was really little. We said, we're going to make a ton of mistakes. We don't know how to raise you. You're the first you we've ever raised. But yeah, but the dad to me is just. so childish and just he's just there's no there's not going to be anything getting through to him and I hate right I'm I'm sorry Travis if I'm taking over this but I wanted to get a couple other things out I was I was boohooing in tears when she the mom was um very upset about the Epstein papers and Chad was so supportive of like yeah mom that's really hard and just let her Cause she wants them released.

18:57 She's convinced that Trump's nowhere near, he's not in them anywhere. And she wants them released and they weren't getting released. And she was really upset about it. And he let her just kind of vent and not say, not digging on her, which I thought was quite lovely. And, but she's can, and she wants, cause she wants all the pedophiles arrested as we all do. We all, I don't know anybody want, all the pedophiles arrested well that was cash patel's thing for 10 years okay well that was that was cash patel's thing that's pam bondy's thing that's donald trump's thing and like it's like i mean they campaigned on releasing the files right and then it's like now that we're here it's like oh oh no no no no we're not gonna and i'm glad that like that got through uh congress and i'm glad that it was such a And astonishingly, like we're all in on this number. Like what was it for 27 to one in the House? And then it was a unanimous vote in the Senate. So I'm thrilled about that. But yeah, the mom was a was a school teacher for her entire life. And like that, like she cares about these kids. And like it's really sad to see like this is real life and like for that to become politicized. And for her to. I think there's like a there's a. an unwinding process like when you're when you're trying to like separate like you're like the political side of it from like the real life implications of what happened to these literal children and

20:31 you realize like I voted for this guy. People say he's in the files. I don't want to believe that. And I can understand like, you know, not wanting to believe that. But this whole idea, this and this notion of like people running around saying it's the left and the right. It absolutely is. And this whole thing of like people bringing up like, well, what if your favorite celebrity is on the Epstein list? And I'm like, well, first of all, I can tell you Bethany Frankel is not going to show up on that list. But if she is not, she's not she's not my hero anymore. Like, I don't know what to tell you. Right. Right. There's a lot of people in our lives we've had to go. Yeah, we're not in that movie ever again. Right. Yeah. You know, my my my bill, my Bill Gates flags off my truck. And I think that's the other thing, too, is like, I think MAGA put a lot of eggs in the basket. And I'll come back to the because I think this all relates. But like. with with the necessary conversation podcast but like i think maga put a lot of eggs in the basket of i'm all in on donald trump like he's my guy he is my guy and like this like putting him on the pedestal i think was the biggest mistake because it's like like we we've seen like he could keep moving the goal post of like what's acceptable and i think now that we're we're literally talking about like is he in the epstein files is this like is this going to be the breaking point i think this is where you're starting to see a lot of people really reckon with the fact

22:01 of like oh i went all in on a guy that i probably wasn't entirely sure about and now what do we do with that i think that's a very that it's probably a very hard process psychologically to go through of like separating yourself from that because like in a lot of ways and i can understand like the charisma and like this whole like what everything he campaigned on i can understand him being a heroic figure for a lot of people like not i mean not for me but like i can understand how he got there and i think that has to be very very hard like i so i i i sympathize with those with those people because it's like you're losing your hero but when you see it like oh god sorry no no go ahead I was going to say, when you see it with like this family on YouTube, really arguing it out where you've got the mom who's like, no, no, no, there's no way. And I'm like, for her sake, I hope she's right. And then you've got the dad who is just like Donald Trump's on those files. I love Donald Trump. He can do no wrong.

23:06 And like, it's it's just it's it's it's such a bizarre fight to see happening in real life because I'm just like. Like, how did we get here? How did we get here? And to see her being really upset, too, about the the mass deportations. She was not happy about that. And I think that's also when her husband backed out because he just was going to stick with, I'm going to back up. They broke the law, so blah, blah, blah. They deserve everything they get kind of thing. They're here illegally, you know, and then, you know, they're trying to explain to them, well, there's citizens that are being wound up. And also it's a misdemeanor, by the way, to violate the border crossing. Right. But anyway, so, I mean, I think that they have given, you know, she was, she just does not want the. mass deportations are ice she's not happy with ice's job but she's still very much a trump supporter um and um i forgot what's going with this well you know i was gonna say like this is you know if we get it i don't want to get us bogged down by the sort of science -y you know political science other kind of stuff but you know i mean this is kind of a what has happened over the last you know 30 or 50 years kind of depending on how you measure but especially the last you know 25 or 30 years that this wasn't always like this right we didn't our our political identity wasn't this salient in our lives like it is now like it's first thing we kind of want to know about

24:37 somebody now and this kind of stuff and yeah you know Should I listen? That wasn't like that 30 or 40 years ago. And so this has been, you know, a slow thing to kind of build that up. And, you know, and and I think if you do like the Robert Putnam and the sort of bowling alone stuff and all that, somehow political ideology is sort of taken over for this kind of tribal nature that humans want. And it is very hard now. So and so if you think about like the dad or even the mom, even if she is to a point where I don't like this or I don't like that. Where does she go? Like the left isn't going to sort of she can't see the left as an option. No, she's still 100 percent. Yeah. So and they wouldn't take her anyway. Right. They know you're a bad person because you supported him before and this kind of stuff. So, you know, it's tough because there's where are you going to go? Like there's no you and, you know, it's it's almost like the box into a corner thing. Like I don't have a good option. So I'm going to just double I have to double down, I guess, you know. And so, yeah, so is that like we just don't have. you know a good pathway for people to like you know what like your guy's not great my guy's not great either let me tell you right right we have problems too yeah well and that was that's really the the most interesting thing like when you when you i guess not the most interesting thing but it's it's it's such a big deal to people i think because like you're And you say it really happened over the last like 30, 40 years. And I think it's because like the last 30, 40 years have been like literally fighting over like, well, this party wants you to have rights. This party

26:08 doesn't. I know that's not what every political thing is about, but you've got like, I mean, something that's very real for me is marriage equality. And you have people on the fringes of the far right. I know it's not most of the right. It's overwhelmingly like. accepted and like not even thought about in in most of the united states but um you've got the fringes of the far right like being lit on fire by the heritage foundation that are like we need to repeal gay marriage like we need to pull that back and i'm like oh okay it's not going to stop with me so like i think it's so important to people because it's like oh you voted for this guy you don't want me to have rights and i like i think I think I can see how people get there, but like I'm just like I know that my family is overwhelmingly conservative and right leaning in a lot of a lot of areas. I know they're not voting for the Republican Party because they don't want me to have rights. And I think that's a that's a thing people have a hard time separating. Yeah. And, you know, that's that's such an interesting that's actually a very interesting topic, too, because.

27:18 It's one of those ones where – I mean it's one of the things that Trump was able to really appeal to, particularly in the beginning there, 2015 timeframe, 2016 timeframe. This idea that culture had sort of pushed – like they were losing the culture wars kind of thing, right? And it was kind of funny that people could simultaneously kind of say, I don't really have a problem with gay marriage, but – Damn it. Why did we let that – why did gay marriage happen? Like that's – but I actually don't have – like I personally don't have a problem. I even know like my family. I have members of my family that are like – but I still have like this weird kind of – I'm opposed to this idea because it's like attacking me at this kind of cultural – it's like a place I lost the war. And it's like a place where Trump was so good with that language of we're going to win. And they understood what that meant. I think most of the rest of us didn't even know what that meant. Right. But it's it's stuck with that group because they're like, yeah, we've been losing for so long and losing for 20 years. You know, we lost this. We lost that. We lost that.

28:21 And, you know, and I think that's a place where there's so much room to kind of let's come to the table because you actually aren't concerned about this. So why is it bothering you so much? And that's a conversation like we've never been good at because people immediately start, oh, you don't like it. So therefore you're a bad person and blah, blah, blah. And we don't find this way to kind of. overcome that like thing that's like pretty obvious like you actually aren't concerned about it but you are concerned about it at the same time and it just talks about this whole identity and this winning and losing you know kind of black and white winners and losers kind of mindset that's happened where my side needs to have these three wins and every every loss that every win that your side gets is a loss to me whereas like that's an example of who loses in that right there's no winners losers there right well that's something that i've like i will spiral over because it's like and it comes into this whole conversation about diversity equity and inclusion and how like the like donald trump and like like all these guys like anytime they hate something it's they immediately label it woke and it's like it's dei and i hate it and like whatever and then you see like you you really start to see people saying well like like we have diversity equity and inclusion initiatives in in so many places in the country and that must be why i'm i'm disadvantaged and i'm like i don't i don't think you get what diversity equity inclusion means if you think you're disadvantaged in any way but that's that's not a fight i'm

29:52 gonna win any anytime soon with people but um but like you you really you really see it in like where you know target was the big one where they like they said okay we're gonna roll back our diversity equity and inclusion policies And like their their entire business model is just like on fire around them. And they're like when I put it in these notes, but like they they they laid off like eighteen hundred people and then they blame it on their processes being too complex. And I'm like, you just have to take the loss and admit when you messed up like that's like Diva, you have got to figure this out because like. I cannot imagine that there's not someone sitting in a boardroom in Minneapolis where Target is based saying, hey, do you guys remember when we were for the girls and the gays and the days and we were doing really, really great? And people just like showed up to spend hundreds of dollars at a time. And then we like made this fun little announcement. And then like they stopped like like the fact that they're not publicly making this connection is is so insane to me. Yeah, they and you know, they used to have a really great on. on a pride month, they had some great products that came out. I'm like, you'd always, I always get a little excited. Oh, they're going to come out with the, with all their pride stuff.

31:08 It's really cool. And then when they said, Oh, we're not doing this anymore. It's like, yeah, I don't think I've been into target since then. I don't think we have. I don't think I truly think that that was like, and then you're like, DEI is a, is a sore spot with me because like you said, Travis, nobody really knows what that is. They just think that it's bad for white Christians. And it should be bad for white Christians, by the way. But, you know, it's like, you don't even know what that is. Do you know who made, you know, who benefited the most for DEI? And they're like, oh, no, no, it's just all those Asians. And I'm like. What Asians? Ew. What are you talking about? What are you talking about?

31:51 No, white women are the ones who benefited the most. But then again, MAGA wants women back in the kitchen, barefoot and pregnant. Well, is MAGA on that path? Yeah, the trad wife. Oh, the trad wife thing, yeah. But I thought those were a little bit separate. I don't know if that's a one -to -one match. Well, like we've discovered that trad wife is more of a porn addiction. Well, it's got its aspect to it. Well, I know I was surprised I did. I did an episode. I did. I basically ended up doing these episodes that ended up being a series. Right. I initially started with kind of the trad wife, homeschooling, homesteading stuff. And that was kind of episode one in this series. And then I did, you know, the young men leaning to the right versus young women. Yeah.

32:32 Right. And sort of the Gen Z particularly. And so we did an episode about that. And then I did that as a kind of follow up. The third one is kind of the Manosphere one, because Manosphere kind of kept coming up in both those other two. So it's like, why better? try to figure out what the manosphere even means so then i did that manosphere episode so yeah so i did this episode on trad wife and that's where i i learned it and like once i talked to one of these experts about it and they were talking about you know that that there's this kind of um uh kind of a porn side to it that like there's this whole fetishy trad wife thing going on i'm like oh now that you mentioned it that makes perfect sense of course there is but it didn't occur to me until right no travis is not gonna sleep now for a week but it's like you know We talk all the time, like if there's a thing, there's a porn version of it. Of course there is. But just even as, you know, all those women, you know, cooking and sitting with all the kids screaming and all that. They're flowing dresses and all.

33:25 100 % turn on fetish. Yeah, there's got to be a fetish for that, for sure. Yeah. Show me your feet a little more. I mean, I'm not here to kink shame anyone, but like. No, of course not. Of course not. But when you're trying to frame it as a. You know, this is the way life should be. Women should not have a vote. A vote should be for the household and the man will do that. And women should be home having kids, as many kids as possible. Yeah, it's pretty gross. And for women that want to do that, great. Like that's your choice. No, that's fine. Yeah, no, 100%. But like making all women do that is where we're talking about, like drawing the line. Yeah, but are you okay? I would like to talk to a woman who's okay giving up her vote. And letting her husband vote. I don't know. You see him. I mean, you see him online talking about it. Again, I don't know how real that is. Well, I'm also saying if you're doing it online, yeah, you're not a trad wife. This is your need to be seen. This is your introduction to. It's an influencer.

34:28 You know what? There's going to be the real trad wives of, I don't know, whatever. I'm surprised it hasn't happened yet. Andy Cohen's got that lined up already. Hasn't that already kind of happened? Isn't there a show like that? Is there not something like that already? I'm amazed that hasn't happened. PBS did the 1800 house. Yeah, they also did. What was it? Sister wives for that. Kind of. But like at the same time, like that devolved pretty quickly into seeing like what the cracks in those marriages are. But like I. So here's here's the thing about the trad wife thing, though. Like if you truly believe like as a woman, your experience is. But you want to like be a mother and you want that to be like your sole identity. I want you to do that. Like that's that's the cool thing about all this is like you have the choice to do all of it. And I think when you get into this area where like the Heritage Foundation is like, no, no, no, this is what must be promoted. This is what this is like what we need to push. And this is the agenda. And you literally write it down in Project 2025. I'm like, oh. You don't you don't want women to actually have rights. You you like that. That's that's always been such a bizarre thing to me. Like in in in most areas of life, I'm like, I don't care how anyone lives their life. It's truly none of my business. As long as everyone involved is like is on board and like they're doing what they want to do.

35:52 I don't care how I don't care what your family looks like. I don't get it. That's all I care. Yeah. Like whatever. Everybody's in agreement. Everybody's safe. Everybody's. lives you know that's fine you yeah you should do you you do you boo yeah do like and that's and that's the thing where you've got the project or i'm sorry uh the heritage foundation and then turning point usa was the other big one where they're literally writing down on paper like this is the way we want people to live their lives that is strange to me i don't get that Yeah. What I will say, like, so I will say that, like, the DEI thing is another example of this idea of that. I think the left often kind of forgets that, you know, we think about political power and sometimes the right sometimes seems like they have more political power here and there. But from the right's perspective, like they feel like they are excluded, that the left has all this cultural power, right? Like the left is kind of to them taking over academia, taking over Hollywood, is taking over, you know. education from their perspective. And, and so, you know, and that's, and so they feel like they have to go and assert themselves in those, in those realms, you know, and I think DEI is kind of part of that. They, they kind of attached, you know, again, like Lisa says, DEI means whatever somebody wants it to mean, I guess. But I think that's part of where it comes from. Like, so I had to call this person they. You know, it's like, screw that. I'm not going to do that. You know, and that that whole conversation where people are

37:23 screaming about like, I don't want to do that, then don't. You don't have to. But like you, you cannot force an entire population of people to get on board with like your notion of what the perfect family is or what the perfect religion is like. That is so strange to me, like how we started versus how we got here. I'm like, Diva, like, do you not do you? You're losing the plot. Well, sometimes you've mentioned rights like I've heard the term rights a few times. And sometimes when we use those kind of words, just be careful, because like if you say, you know, for like a person on the right, they think they're defending the Constitution to support Donald Trump and do a lot of other stuff. Right. They think they're the ones defending rights. And it's the left trying to take the rights away. So a lot of this is how people interpret this language and words.

38:08 You know, I had a conversation with somebody on the right that wrote a whole piece about. you know, charisma and how the leftist falls for charisma all the time. And and, you know, conservatives never fall for charisma. And I'm like, and I'm like, isn't Donald Trump like a counter argument to this, like a counter point of this? And he's like, well, no, because Trump's not charismatic because he's kind of. crude or whatever. It's like, OK, so we're just defining words the way we want to define them now. Right. And so and I think it's but it's a good point. It's like that's what we all do. Like this guy did it. But I mean, I'm sure I could have taken one of his paragraphs, kind of neutralize it. So you didn't know if he was talking about Trump or somebody else or a left person or right person. And, you know, you would hand to a bunch of people, a bunch of people on the left and say, well, this is 100 percent about Trump. Right. And probably some people on the right would have said, well, that's 100 percent about Mamdani or Obama. So it's just like it's just how we look at things.

38:59 We see what we want to see in this stuff. And so it can be a real problem when we just don't interpret the words the same way. I have a problem giving Trump credit for coming up with all this. He's someone's pawn. He didn't come up with this. Yeah, it's starting to look that way, isn't it? Yeah. But yeah, I think he does have an intuition for it, though. He can he can. He did, I think, see like a missing piece and none of the, you know, he simplified things and he figured, you know, he's simple, I guess. Right. I mean, he sees it simple. And, you know, most of us, most people see it simple. So he was able to say stuff in simple ways that say the thing he wanted to hear. And I think, you know, all these strategists are just overthinking it. Oh, 100 percent. Well, and I think. The best way I've heard it described is Democrats fall in love and Republicans fall in line. Like Republicans are going to show up and vote for Republicans no matter what. Democrats have a tendency to fall in love with their candidate.

39:54 Like, I mean, you could not tell me like that Barack Obama and granted there there's room for criticism there. But you couldn't tell me that Barack Obama was not the greatest president that ever walked the face of the earth. And I was just mad that like I wasn't I wasn't 18 when it was. the time for his the first vote jesus he's that young if it makes you feel better i'm lying about my age like now so like we moved a little bit away from there it's fine like i support everyone's right to lie about their age but um i think donald trump really found his niche in I can I can make the right fall in love to like. So I think what we're seeing is probably just the pendulum swinging so far because it's like, oh, well, we've been falling in love with people. So for so long, but like the right didn't really have a guy to fall in love with. Like I looking back, like I can't think of any figure on the right that is truly just like. as charismatic as donald trump is it's like as messy as he is it's like and like this is the thing is like if he would if he wouldn't have gotten involved in politics and i've said it a million times i would love the guy like i and if i think back to like 2014 being in new york if i would have ran into him at a party like i know exactly how it would have gone he would have been holding court with like a bunch of people like he would have been having a time because he's messy and he's funny and he's kind of a disaster but it's

41:24 like a it's a car crash you can't look away from and I just wish he would have like harnessed that in a different way. That's just all there is to it. I disagree a little bit. I think he's the we just because he wasn't in politics. He was he has been misogynistic forever and we've just overlooked it because he was a nobody. But I if he was in a party and told me that, yeah, I'm going to go check on the girls in the dressing room at the pageant. I would be fucking qualified. OK, that's fair. Yeah, that's fair. You know, and I think that those comments were kind of just whatever. That's just Trump being Trump.

42:09 He's a nobody. Forget that. You know, he's just going to sell some steaks and water and airlines. It's all going to go underground anyway. But I think that if we knew if we knew then what we know now. Oof. I think he would be, I'm using quotes, canceled. Canceled. Yeah. I mean, he was canceled by the Village Voice like 25 years ago. Yeah. I think I was looking at it from the perspective of like, he's, I mean, he's like a drag queen. Like, I guess I didn't think about like the things that we know he said at the time. Now we're talking about something totally different. I would love to see him. It would be funny. I would pay good money to see that. But, you know, I think of Trump differently, right? Because I see him, I think he's sort of so broken as a human. I kind of see him as almost like an alien that's going through life kind of pretending to, like, this is almost like chat GPT. Like, this is what the way a human would talk, right?

43:09 Yeah, he's... I mean, kind of. Like, I mean, who even says, what a weird turn of phrase, grab him by the pussy. Have you ever met anyone in your entire life, even somebody crude that would use that weird turn of phrase? I mean, he just feels like he's a he's a machine is trying to sometimes pretend to be human. I mean, and all this stuff. I see that that 10 year old, I'll be dating her in 10 years or see that, you know, my daughter, my my daughter is so freaking gorgeous. And I would love to date that. I mean, just the stuff that we've heard. And then he has these weird like little moments of like self self awareness where it's like, I guess I'm probably not going to heaven. Right. And then he turns around and he's like, quiet, picky. Yeah. No, but what's his obsession with heaven right now? What does he think? I don't know. What does he think heaven is? I know. I don't know. I mean, I feel like heaven is something like Stefan from Saturday Night Live. Go see heaven. It's got wombats in the corner, dancing wombats. It's got everything.

44:19 Are you old enough to know who Stefan is from Saturday Night Live? You've got to look that up. Travis. Get some clips of Stefan. You may not even know this much about Saturday Night Live, but Saturday Night Live has the news segment. yes and stefan would be one of the people that would come on and he would give um you know uh hot tips for what to do in new york city what's the hot club in new york oh oh oh yes yes yes okay like i did i never knew his name i know exactly who you're talking about yeah yeah and so and and the one of the things about that that skit is that he didn't know what he was going to say like the writers give him cards in the moment He didn't know. So that's why he was cracking up so much all the time because he would read these cards and then say, and then they started making that, that, um, they started scripting that like mad libs. So they would just sit in the writings. They wrote it all out, but then they'd say, okay, we just fill in a blank. Yeah.

45:15 Phil, we're going to do a Stefan fill in. I need a adjective. I need a animal. I need a noun. I need, yeah. You know, so. So even the writers, they wrote the basic script, but then they would mad lib it in and then that's what they would give him. Yeah. Oh, that's amazing. So that's what I think. So that's what I think that Trump doesn't even know what heaven is. What is, I mean, what does he, what does he really think he's, he's not a deep thinker. I mean, he's not a deep thinker. And don't forget, John Paul said that don't be an asshole. Everybody gets to go to heaven. Just don't be an asshole. Didn't he retract that? No, he did not. I don't know. I don't know. But the Catholics lost their fucking mind. They were not happy about that. No, they were not happy. You've got to die for more if you want to go to heaven. Yeah. No. Yeah. I guess I don't know. The long and short of it is, like, Donald Trump is a case that I don't think we're ever going to solve as a nation. And, like, at most, we have three more years with him. So, yay. Your holidays might be chaotic, but your bed doesn't have to be. I'm really into Cozy Earth's bamboo sheets right now. They are ridiculously soft, and they'll keep you cool all night. Oprah and Kris Jenner are both huge fans, and you'll see why. You get a 100 -night sleep trial and a 10 -year warranty, so you really can't go wrong.

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47:31 That's hypernaturalstyle .com. Code BESTY. In some ways, I would like to see in 100 years how history is going to reflect on this. Yeah, I know, because you can imagine. I don't want to live for 100 years. Yeah. Well, you can imagine like some character 100 years ago. somebody that was living through it would look at how historians talk about now they're like oh man they got that wrong that's true but it's so anyways go ahead i like i want to know like i think i have thought about that a lot like how are we going to talk about like covid and black lives matter and like things that have real impacts and it's like are we going to whitewash it or are we gonna like And truly learn from our mistakes of doing that with like the civil rights movement and and everywhere we went wrong and say, no, we have to be honest about that, because I think this is something like as this is on a societal level. I think we have to start being very honest about like, yeah, it's OK to admit we messed up like this American exceptionalism thing is not getting us very far. Yeah, and I think that right. And I think the Democrats still haven't really learned.

48:50 figured out what what the takeaways are from this whole last 10 years well we tried to start doing that I mean Columbus Day was pre -Trump we were getting away from Columbus Day yeah for obvious reasons and even like nobody likes even even Spain like and Portugal don't like Columbus nobody likes Columbus right and you know but it's also so we were getting away from that and getting more of the real story and then here here he comes and now you know columbus day is back with a vengeance and i think that's such a bizarre hill to die on like what like you you truly can't handle it being called indigenous people's day like you you cannot handle that idea and so you like what attachment do you have to christopher columbus like i don't understand The attachment he has is that or that that side has is that the other side says, don't be stupid.

49:46 Well, I guess it's part of that whole culture war nostalgia thing. Yes. They feel like it's another place. They're losing the culture war and losing. Can I just tell you, I've never felt nostalgic about Christopher Columbus or Columbus Day. Like I've never felt a sense of pride around it. Like that is a bizarre thing to me. I'd rather call it Tony Soprano Day because then I would be way behind it. Yeah. Right. I mean, the whole story is like who even decided to make that a story? It's such a wacky story anyway. Who came up with that mythology? I I love how creative we get with history. Like, I think it's just such a fun thing that we do. Also, speaking of history, because this kind of is a perfect segue into like one of my last topics. Have you guys seen the. the timeline on the white house website of like the history of like the building of the white house you know i hadn't seen it until you brought it to my attention but yeah i did i did look it over what are your thoughts this is so bizarre like to me like what are they really doing like you know I mean, I mean, for one thing, I mean, Trump does like this idea that if I put my crimes out there in public, like they're OK.

51:06 Right. If I just say I'm going to do it, it must be fine. Like everyone says, well, it must not be illegal because he put it on a website. But so there's that side of it, maybe. But what is this whole thing anyway? Like, is it what is it? I mean, I guess it's it could be as, you know, Occam's razor kind of it's just the grift. Right. It's like a new way to grift. I don't know. It could be legacy like he wants to do some kind of legacy there. I feel like the whole thing is not about a ballroom at all. I feel like there's something else going on here that none of us know about. So, Lisa, did you see the link that I put in the notes? I'm sorry. I did not, Travis. Oh, that's OK. That's OK. So I'll just just for a little breakdown. So on the White House website, they have like a timeline of like the history of events. And it starts out pretty normal with like. we built the white house and then we had the the fire in the war of 1812 and then we rebuilt the white house and then like we added the east wing and we added the west wing and then it gets to um the uh obama administration and they're like that jumps way to the way forward well they i mean they to be fair they do have like nine pages of like history and then it's like like after the uh the rose garden being installed it jumps to like the obama administration it's like barack obama invited the muslim brotherhood into the white house and that was just really really bad they're terrorists like it literally says this on the website and then it goes into uh oh i'm

52:37 sorry the one right before that is bill clinton got had his affair in the local office yeah and then it jumps to uh a picture of hunter biden falling asleep in the bathtub it's that picture that's been all over the internet and they and it's like hey we found cocaine in the white house this must have been joe biden's son like and then it's uh well you know i want to say they do this jump too right i mean they go from and they kind of act like well this just is a normal flow right but if you look at like they talk about the total quote -unquote reconstruction that was done with with truman right so that was 1948 and they jumped in 1970 right they don't really notice that oh that was like that was a long time it's a pretty big gap but also like they don't talk at all about how that truman reconstruction was like the place was running down and also there was a huge like they put truman as like truman did it but really that was a whole effort by the whole like historical i don't know all the names technical names of all this these groups that do this kind of architecture you know this heritage architecture kind of stuff of dc i mean truman was just happened to be the president at that time it wasn't like his project this was like you know a huge i mean he you know these other groups and these these outside you know experts that that kind of worry about this history beyond one president worked on that project and then they kind of jumped like you say these other things that are like what is the bill clinton you know monica lewinsky thing have to do with

54:07 rebuilding the white house that's super weird well that to me is like why are you so obsessed with owning the left like why is like why is that your entire personality and why is that what you're going to put on the website and then it's like okay so you have i think one of the last items on the timeline was the trans visibility day of awareness where the trans woman took her top off on the white house lawn and i'm like did you include the uh shaman on january 6th that was running around without a shirt on because you really wanted to obsess over someone not wearing a shirt like i don't understand why you're not including your side in that like it's just it's one of those things where i'm like politics is messy and i get that but it's like you were you were literally taking like one of the most iconic legacies of like a building right and being so gross about it like i don't like this idea that like someone in the trump administration was like yeah let's put this on the website like i i don't i i don't get it Right. I mean, they could have they could have clearly had a whole bunch of if they wanted to, like they switch from this idea of. of literally kind of construction around the White House to this, like, you know, scandals around the White House. Like if they were going to switch to historical events that were significant, there's all kinds of things, you know, different signings, you know, there was different treaties signed and stuff like that you could put in this list, right? But yeah, then they picked this weird thing with Bill Clinton, the Muslim Brotherhood. And then I love the photo of Hunter Biden in the bathtub with a cigarette

55:40 hanging out of his mouth. My God. you know but it's this shit that they pick is ridiculous sorry i don't know if you're an explicit website you want to bleep that yeah no it's every episode's explicit i've called i've called christy now i'm the c word on my podcast before it's fine You know, and then the other thing about it is once you get if it's supposedly a timeline, the other thing is like, you know, this stuff starts to accelerate a lot. Right. You get all these things. Like I said, one bullet is 20, 30 years apart. And then you get to this end and it's like 2025, 2025, 2025, 2025, 2025, 2025. It's like all this stuff that he's done in the last nine months or whatever. Right. It's like he just compresses it all and talk about how wonderful it is. Yeah. I mean, they're so wonderful and they're so good at everything. They're just really, really good. Who is he hiring to do this website?

56:34 I assume Caroline Levitt's brother or something. I don't know. Caroline Levitt's kid? I don't, yeah. Maybe. I mean, like you say, this could be an Onion website. Like once you start switching into the Bill Clinton scandal and everything that goes after that, this could 100 % be the Onion who put this website together. And they're so unserious. Like, that's that's the thing is like, I'm just like, Diva, you're the president of the United States. Like, this is a dot gov website. And to Lisa's point, he just doesn't get that. Like, he doesn't get the significance of that. He doesn't get that he is the president of all of the United States. He thinks he's president just of the MAGAs. Right. Well, he's president of whoever likes him. Yeah. That week. Yeah.

57:21 Maybe. And if you say something he doesn't like, he's going to call you piggy or dumb or stupid or fake news. Or pull your broadcasting license or sue you. Like, whatever. Yeah, it is crazy. This is the world we're in now. And like you guys were talking about the history. What will history look back at this? And you're like, I'm just hoping we look back at this and go, what were we thinking? Like, how did we let this happen? I hope so. You think about the dumbness like this is literally, you know, idiocracy, right? I mean, this is like idiocracy didn't even go this far. But I've wrote all of my topics. I feel like I've like I have like one last thing, but I want like what's on your guys's list. I want to hear I want to hear all of your stuff.

58:07 What do you have, Lise? All of our stuff? No, just say anything. Oh, by the way, me and my brother have decided to see where it's not bad and we used it all weekend. Yes. Be European, right? Be English. Just say it all the time. Right. Or I think the Aussies do it too. I don't think they're bothered by that word. No, they're not bothered at all. Gay guys have like taken back that word, too. Like I like we scream it constantly. So, yeah, I know. And I just feel so liberated where I can call my brother the C word. Yeah. Proud of you. Not in not in not say, hey, you C word. But in a fun way. In a fun way. Oh, my God. I love you. Yeah. Let's see. What do I have on my list? You know, you know, we we're in California. We have Newsom.

59:03 So I always like to talk about one of Newsom's trolls against Trump, which are just magical. Yes. Even though we don't. Yes. We're not we're not lovers of Trump, but I do love that. I do love that. He's just going for it. And I'm going to just give it to. Give it, give it back to them every single time. What was the one that you need to, but lately it was like, you need to dress appropriately on the airplane. Oh, what do you mean? I have to dress appropriately on the airplane. That was also on my list. Yeah. Yeah. And then. International flights, man. I'm putting my sweats on. I'm ready for a nap. What are you talking about? Your son was horrified when we did an overnight flight and you and I showed up in pajamas and he's like, what are you doing? You're going to wish you had your pajamas on too. And then he shows a picture of freaking RFK Jr., the head of our health, walking around an airplane barefoot. That's fucking disgusting.

1:00:08 That's gross. rfk jr is a gem man i gotta tell you the gift that keeps on giving i that's another one of those things where i look at it i'm like is this satire like this this can't be real like oh you think beef tallow is is an actual like okay that's you're all in on beef tallow you are you think vaccines cause autism like okay you are you're not a real person like i'm convinced of that Well, wait, you're in Kentucky now and they've had you've had three children die from of measles. No, not measles. Whooping cough, right? Oh, because they're not vaccinated. Three unvaccinated kids died in Kentucky. That's amazing.

1:00:56 Isn't Kentucky also where the arc is? Yeah. Oh, yeah. The Noah's Ark experience. That's a that's a real highlight, too. Have you done that? Have you done that yet? So I'm actually in Indianapolis. Most of my family is from Kentucky, though. Like I still have a ton of family that lives in Kentucky. No, I've I've I've never partaken in the Noah's Ark experience. And he's a cool town. Yeah, of course. And then Megan Kelly is also the other gift. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Talking about like anything Trump does is OK. Now we're like.

1:01:38 kind of coming up these weird definitions of where you draw the line yeah with that's the thing is like megan kelly had had the real opportunity to have the world eating out of the palm of her hand after the whole fox news fallout situation and lord have mercy you want to talk about someone who squandered an opportunity like that is that's rough like and it gets more disgusting when she has a 15 year old daughter yeah it it does and that's do do i i think part of the problem is she she is one of these people she's similar to tucker carlson in this way where i don't think she thinks before something comes out of her mouth and like she's just talking and talking and talking and talking because like you i think i when i watched the clip i was like oh this is where she realized what came out of her mouth and she started writing it back yeah but i'm like The fact that it came out of your mouth lets me know like, oh, you're you're willing to move the goalposts for Trump in this scenario.

1:02:45 I'm everything that comes out of your mouth is completely irrelevant to me now. I'm like, it's not a conversation I'm willing to participate in. I can't like that's disgusting. And why is she all in on Trump? He he threw her out a long time ago. He tossed her to the curb. Yeah, I don't. That's. That loyalist thing is something that's never made sense to me. Like, I don't I don't get it. Yeah, that's the one that's always been a challenge for me, too, particularly these powerful people that like they know they're going to get, you know, I mean, I guess it's the power that is driving it. Like they just want to stay in power somehow and stay in the power circle or whatever. But like historically, like he screws everyone over eventually. And, you know, it's the classic the leopard's not going to eat my face off. I can't believe the leopards ate her face like and that's like I and I guess like I to what end and I'm like if if you really take someone who like who has done this kind of well it's Kamala Harris where she's been very honest about her relationship with Joe Biden and she still likes the guy and that's all well and good like and she's gone on the book tour and talked about like yeah like we we fought a lot and At the end of the day, like I still respect him, but like our relationship is complicated. And I think like you just have to be honest about it. Like these people that are so delusional about this notion of Donald Trump can do no wrong.

1:04:14 I simply will never understand that because I'm like, we've we've watched him turn on. One of his most vehement supporters in Marjorie Taylor Greene. And, you know, what's interesting is like the left hated Marjorie Taylor Greene for what she was in Congress for five years and. Hated her the entire time. MAGA hates her for two weeks and she's had to hire security. Yeah, well, now she knows what it's like. She has a little taste of what she was dishing out. Yeah, well, it's in as part of that whole. You know, the left is the violent side, right? I mean, we talk ourselves into these ideas. The lunatic left. Yeah. The radical left. Yeah. Yeah. And we have to kind of get out of using this kind of language. No, of course we do. Of course we do. It doesn't represent anyone real. Say it again. I was just saying it doesn't represent anyone real. Like it's all just a caricature of this idea that doesn't really exist. No, it doesn't. But what I do want to because Lisa mentioned it, Sean Duffy telling people to dress up for flights like when he came out and said what he said about travel, I thought that was the most wild concept anyone has. Like, you were really brave in this economy right now to start talking about what people need to do on flights. Like, I have to tell you, I will. I will show up to

1:05:44 the airport in joggers and like a Lululemon t -shirt and like that is the best you're getting out of me. I'm not interested in like interacting with anyone. I'm not interested in this whole notion that like we have to be kind to like other travelers. Like, no, you're insane. Well, I'm not there. I'm not there to, you know, make new friends. I need to get to my just my destination. But I want you to be clean. Just be clean. I don't want you to show up in the in the joggers and the lemon shirt you've been working out in all weekend. And no one wants to hear your music either. So you can keep that in your headphones. No, I'm going to be so for real with you. I don't care. Like, I'm going to. Well, no, like, that's for me, though. Like, I'm just like, I have I have my headphones in. I'm not paying attention to anything that's going on around me. And like these. These issues that people run into at the airport, I'm like, these are self -inflicted issues. Like if people can mind their own business for the most part, like we're probably going to be cool. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. I mean, everybody's got their quirks. You do your thing.

1:06:49 I'll do my thing. We're all good. Yes. I just want to be showered when you come. I don't want to sit next to you if you haven't showered in a while. Showering is helpful. Like I cannot imagine unless you're a sociopath, you're not showing or you're showing up to the airport without a shower. Yeah. And like you say, I don't care what you're wearing. Just just be clean. Stay in your zone, though, a little bit like don't want to use all the space. Sure. But that comes with minding your own business. I'm going to sit here. I'm going to like read my book. I'm going to play on my iPad. I'm going to take a nap and I'm not going to bother anyone. But like, I do want to know when Sean Duffy like got on the TV and said what he was saying about like, we need to bring civility back to flying. Who was that for? Who are we doing that for? Yeah, I do want to know that. Who's the audience for that? He had some sort of encounter the day before that he didn't like. Some girl probably was wearing a very small T -shirt and it was too distracting for him. Probably. He wants her to wear more clothes. That's what it is. Could be. Even if that's not what it is, that's what I believe it is. Well, you know, we we used to go to a lot of trade shows and stuff. And out here we have like these shows like Comdex and these other ones in Vegas. Right. And often they overlap with like some big porn awards thing. So you'd fly in and out of Vegas and there's like all the, you know, porn stars are there on the plane.

1:08:14 Almost nothing. Nothing, right. Well, because they're going straight from the plane to work. Yeah, I guess. Well, it goes straight to the plane to the trade show floor. We did that all the time. Well, that's true. Yeah, yeah. And there was definitely people on the plane that were not comfortable with that. No. I found it just kind of entertaining. I'm also like, good for these girls. They're going straight to work, man. Whatever. Good for them. I love that. They're not the ones making the problem. You are. Right, exactly. Like you say, it's self -inflicted. Right. There is. What do you have, honey? I've covered my stuff. I'm all good. Cool. Lisa, did you have anything else? I could go on forever.

1:08:57 I've got a long list of shit. We can go on forever just on the Housewives themselves and I don't even watch it anymore. So I that's I got to tell you, that's something if you've ever listened to my show, that is something that I will talk about to no end. And like, I, I do get the argument that they're not they're not great people in a lot of cases, like you were saying earlier. But it's something that like I've had to like really grapple with where like Jen Shah is getting out of prison. And like, I mean, she went to prison for literally defrauding vulnerable elderly people out of like their social security checks.

1:09:38 And I'm like. Can I still watch her on the real house of Salt Lake City if she does come back? And like, I think that is a very fair assessment where it's like you. Like you can make the argument of separating the art from the artist in a lot of cases, but I'm like, oh, I don't I don't know if I could separate that. I think that's very fair, Lisa. Yeah, because you're actually paying her. Your your time is money for them. Your eyes are money for them. So you're actually paying her. She doesn't deserve your money. I'm just telling you, Travis. She didn't deserve like all the old people's money. Exactly. Yeah. You can always watch Love After Lockup or 90 Day Fiance. Those are good. Those are good shows.

1:10:27 There's nothing wrong with those. Listen, I'll watch 90 Day Fiance all day long. And like Love After Lockup is something like during COVID, I got deep into that show. That's so funny because we got deep into like some very bizarre documentaries. Not only, you know, of course, Tiger King, everyone got involved in that. Love Tiger King. So, of course, you watch Chimp Crazy, right? No, what was Chimp Crazy? Made by the same people. Okay. This lady hid a chimp from PETA. Actually, a very large chimp. I think you would enjoy it.

1:11:12 I'll check it out. And it's also a lot of my monkey's not going to tear my face off. Right. And there are some faces that have been torn off. Beautiful. Yeah. So Chimp Crazy was another one. And Don't Fuck With Cats. Those are, I mean, those are the style of documentaries we got into at Gov. I love that. Speaking of the Tiger King. Don't Fuck With Cats, right? I've seen that one. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Good. Speaking of Tiger King. Speaking of Tiger King, he's an interesting case because he's the one that's been like begging Donald Trump for a pardon. And it would appear that Donald Trump will pardon literally anyone except for the Tiger King. And why? And why? Because the Tiger King, I mean, I mean, I don't know why he wouldn't pardon him because he would get a lot of publicity. i don't know like that like i mean that was the thing though is he had a limo waiting outside of his jail like for like waiting for that pardon and like they were like that's that's not happening like yeah yeah it's unfortunate i don't know yeah i mean it's weird they don't see some like you say some political advantage to it because like you say that it would be a lot less you know bad than a lot of the other people he's pardoned Yeah, I mean, if you can let all the January six people off, you can let the Tiger King off, like let let him run his zoo. It can only be stuffed animals now. He's not allowed to have any of getting permits to have exotic animals. But I would love

1:12:42 to see. I don't think he ever had a permit. No, that's true. But I mean, he was also on camera and he did a he did a couple of. reality shows before tiger king because he was did the whole um he was in louis louisiana right i don't know could be somewhere louisiana or yeah it had to have been louisiana because it wasn't maybe mississippi i don't know right and he was making this big deal about what a hickey was and but but he was marrying this man and i know he's married two men and that was so shocking and we're like going okay Why are you freaking out? OK, it's just for this show. And but who so you never know what the story is about. Yeah, he was he was just he wanted publicity so bad. Yeah, it was publicity. It was like his third try at some sort of documentary show about his life. And that was that was the thing is like, I remember watching that and I was like, this guy is like.

1:13:47 you could write like an entire sociology paper on him because like he's so bizarre and this like obsession he had with carol baskin and like i'm like who is this diva And then like you find out that he like was dating the guy that ended up like blowing his brains out. Like, but like he was married to the other guy. And like the guy that like accidentally shot himself was also like straight, I guess, like ostensibly. The whole thing is so crazy. And that kid's mom was still hanging out with the tiger king. And you're like, honey, honey, you're oh, oh, yeah. she needed a hug bad and she needed to be into the car and driven away she needed someone to hold her hand and like look her dead in the eye and just say a couple things she needed to hear because that was rough right what are you still doing here yeah you're you mean your son is gone but you're still sitting here i i don't know to me that was just yeah What else? What else, you guys? You need to watch Chim Crazy and then get back to us. I will absolutely watch Chim Crazy.

1:14:55 Was it on Netflix? I think it was on HBO, actually. I will add it to my list right now. You probably can get it almost anywhere, but wow, she's magic. From the moment they start her on the camera, you're looking at that hair and those lips that she's... have blown up and you're like oh yeah this is this is gonna be a good ride for all my talks for all my talk of dissing like reality shows one of my uh guilty pleasures for a while was like animal planet had this show and it was more like a you can almost say it's like a cop show almost but it was like all these people that had wild animals you know as pets and They all say the exact same thing, you know, talking about my leopard's not going to eat my face off.

1:15:43 They all basically say that, right? My alligator's dead. All these experts would tell him, you can't keep this animal. It's going to kill you someday. It's like, oh, no, you don't understand. My tiger loves me. My tiger is not going to eat my face off. And they all say that. And they all got killed in this show. Everyone got eaten. Oh, yeah. No, we had a guy in my neighbor. Not well, my neighborhood. I say that loosely because I live out in the country. But like we had a guy growing up in my neighborhood who kept a bear like a big brown bear in his backyard, like in like a fenced in cage situation that was like probably. ten by six and they were like the like the county was out to his house several times being like sir you will die like this like and i guess like in the state of indiana it's totally legal to have a bear as a pet like there's like fine okay great but you so he had this bear in his backyard and he like and then the one of the the kid who i went to school with like And he came to school one day and they were like, yeah, my dad's in the hospital because the bear like slashed his chest open. Oh, my gosh. One of these one of these people had a like a Komodo dragon that they were that was their pet. And it was, you know, the classic, you know, like my Komodo dragon loves me. My Komodo dragon is not going to kill me. you know the dragon doesn't have feelings it's a dinosaur it does not have feelings no and uh you know so the guy was missing like for a while they finally did like a whatever you call it to self the check they do that wellness

1:17:14 check they did a wellness check on him and this is well i bet this dragon was just had been munching on him for like a week dragon was dragon was well there was like half of him left but the dragon was just like i'll save this part for tomorrow munching them up that's that's one of those things i i look at people that keep reptiles as pets like where they have like like full blood like out of snakes or one thing but like that's still like weird for me but like i look at reptiles and i'm like no one really talks about how i wholeheartedly believe that those are like like just dinosaurs that have evolved like you cannot tell me that these komodo dragons are not like of this world like so Like, there's no way, there's no way I'd keep one of those as a pet. No way.

1:18:00 There's nothing pet like a reptile. Reptiles aren't cuddly. They're not fun to pet. They don't, they don't fetch. They care about you less than a cat does. Yeah. And they're like, they feel weird. And like, I, it's, I've, I've never. And you have to feed them live animals. But if you are keeping a list, I also highly recommend Cat Dancer. Cat Dancer. Cat Dancer. And it's about two ballerinas. Cat Dancer. It's about two ballet people who are ballerinas, a man and a wife. And they decided to bring tigers into their act.

1:18:47 Found it. On Amazon. There it is. There you go. That's on the list. There you go. There you go. And it's, it's a boy that, that story took some turns. You're like, wait, wait, what? Yeah. I didn't see that coming. I didn't see that coming. There was a couple of that guy. Yeah. Yeah. I can't wait. That's another one that. Just when you think, you know, what's happening. Right. Exactly. Like, who's that? Beautiful. Yeah. Cool. What else? Do you guys have anything else on your list to throw at the people? No, I think I think I think I've exhausted my list for tonight.

1:19:30 At least I got like 25 things, but nothing interesting. Nothing worth talking about. More politics. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you guys can come on when you come on to come back on whenever you want. I'm going to need to fill in a couple more spots before Emma comes back. But this has been such a blast. Like tell the plug your show. Tell the people where they can find you. So This Week in Outrage is a podcast you can find on any of your players. You can go to outrageoverload .net is our main website where we kind of have all the serious stuff we do, but also the silly stuff. The silly stuff is a little harder to find, but it's on there. You can reach out. But yeah, This Week in Outrage is on Spotify and Apple and all the places. Same with my Outrage Overload show. We also do sub stacks. You can get that from there if you'd like to read stuff more than. more than listen to silly stuff. You can read my stuff.

1:20:20 And then, yeah, that's pretty much it. All my contact info is on there. So fill all of our contact info. So you have some idea you'd like to talk about. We do our show live on Sunday nights. So you can actually chat with us live on Substack. So if you want to participate, you can just join our Substack and we go live every Sunday night. Amazing. Well, thank you so much, Lisa. Do you have anything to plug? No, I'll be okay. I'm back in town. I've missed a couple of shows, but I'm back in town. So I will be, I've been saving stuff up for Sunday. I know I've been saving stuff up too. So we're going to, that show may go a little long. Yeah. Yeah. I will. I will listen live. I can't wait. This is going to be so cool. Awesome. Well, thank you. Thank you so much. And I'm wondering if I can get a squeak mail to me. they'll get a swig yeah but they have the recipes up there so we might try that for um thanksgiving oh that sounds disgusting it is okay i've got all the rest i've got all the uh ingredients okay all right and keep drinking your diet dr pepper i can do that yes yeah cool well from indy to wherever we love you and thanks for listening