finding meaning and purpose with the president of the Corbin Bleu fan club.

0:13 I'm Travis. And I'm Taylor. And this is Bestie Approved. What was the last song you listened to? Oh, my gosh. I did this really magical thing where I was desperate to feel something. And so I shuffled every single song that I have. I love doing that. Oh, yeah. Like when I'm in like a deep episode. Yeah. Yeah. I the last thing on that shuffle was No Complaints by Noah Kahn. I love that. I love that. And I love him. What was the last song you listened to? And then I have a question for you. A Little Bit by Demi Lovato. What album is that from? It's off the new one. Oh, really? That came out like two weeks ago. Oh, my. I didn't even know she did that. Yeah. OK, what's your question? Have you ever been in like a deep episode where you shuffle your songs and you're like, OK, the next song that comes on has a message that I need to hear?

1:05 No. Just me. I did that a lot. right right okay anyways me neither honestly um i did that a lot when i was in my last relationship and i was like god if you're listening send me a sign with the next song that i shuffle and of course every time it was like leave him you're in a bad situation and i was like hey god it's me taylor hey god it's me again i did that do you ever do that i don't know how you would but i did that with license plates too i was like if i see an indiana plate I'm meant to be in Indiana. Can I just tell you, Josh, I love you to no end. I love you. You are a person that looks for messages in a lot of places. I love I love trying to find meaning and purpose in things that probably don't have any meaning or purpose. Yeah, I love it.

2:02 And I wish I could be more like you at that, because like I. float through life. And I'm like, whatever happens happens, I guess. Well, I think that that's great, too. I think that there is good in both situations. And I also think that I'm in a really good place now where I don't have to do that. And I think that if you're genuinely trying to find messages or purposes in the mundane, then that means. You're lacking something. Yeah. And you're trying to find things through those messages, through that purpose that you're trying to search for. So I think that that's probably a good thing that neither of us are in the position to need that. Yeah. Yeah. I've just never been a person that's like because like I. I guess like if if if something like presents itself to me and like it's very evident what the message is or whatever, like I guess I can like. pull something from that but like I don't know if it's like a leaf floating in the wind or something I'm just like okay or if like all of a sudden a little bit by Demi Lovato comes on and you're like yeah I meant to listen to this for a reason right now in this moment I mean maybe I am meant to listen to it for a reason because Demi Lovato is the voice of a generation and she is and I've always I've literally always said that I'm telling you like maybe 12 to 15 years ago she was my absolute idol it was when it was like the uh the don't forget album oh god i i needed it so bad i tried to dress in all like black white

3:33 and red because i was so obsessed with her i love that yeah literally my era with her was the confident era of course what's wrong with being i love that song yeah for sure she she really is a pop culture icon that has withstood the test of time. She's always good. Well, her story is actually super interesting, too, because like she was she was on. No, she was on Wizards of Waverly Place. Selena Gomez was Selena Gomez was on Wizards of Waverly Place. She was on a show called Sunny with a Chance. Yes. Yes. OK. Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to be so real. I, for a very long time, thought Timmy Lovato and Selena Gomez were the same person. Oh. They were best friends. Were they? Yes. Which one dated Justin Bieber? Selena Gomez. Selena Gomez. Okay. Yeah, for sure. I'm going to cut that because I don't know. No, it's really great. Well, when they were younger, they looked a lot alike. You know, like in their teenage to early adult era, they had similar characteristics. And of course, both of them being on Disney Channel at the same time and best friends and all that stuff. I'm sure it was easy for... Was Jimmy Lovato the one that was on Barney? They were both on Barney, actually.

4:51 OK, cute. I think that's how they met. Oh, OK, cool. Yeah. I was a big, fat Demi Lovato fan when like in middle school and high school. So like, you know who else I was a huge fan of so much that I don't know if you remember this, but in elementary school, I made a club, a fan club for a particular celebrity that was also on Disney Channel. Can you guess who it was? I'll give you one guess and then I'm going to tell you. you'll die i'm trying to think about who is on it is a man if that is a hint whether the no jonas brothers or nickelodeon uh no they were disney channel were they yes they were i did love nick jonas i was a nick girl but no i have no idea corbin blue shut up he he was my first like sexual awakening really oh my god the hottest thing i've ever seen the hottest thing since sliced bread so hot oh corbin blue was high school musical i was thinking about uh the friend from that's so raven the one the guy friend uh Orlando Brown. Yes. That's who I was thinking about. Nevermind. I'm sorry. Did you imagine? No, not him. No Corbin blue. He, and that was also my first concert that our aunt Tina took, took me to. That was my very first concert. It was, wasn't it? And I think Bailey and Logan went as well. Yeah. It was incredible.

6:20 I barely remember a second of it, but I do remember it was at the fairgrounds. Yeah. Um, I was so obsessed with him. I had a pillow with his face on it. I had like, I remember the pillow. I do remember this. Yes. It was like a satiny pillow. Um, and at the elementary school I made a fan club and I was the leader of it. And we would just sit during lunch and read this biography of him. Yes. I don't know who published it, but it had a bunch of pictures of him, his whole life story. I was, I was the leader. I was the president of the club. Like, At least four other girls. I love that. And I think one of them was a guy. I think there was one guy that was in it. Have you checked on that guy lately? I have no clue who he is. OK, perfect. I could not tell you who he is or who he was. I don't know the first thing about whoever that man is today.

7:10 I love that. But I do know about Corbin Bleu and I love him. Now he's a little Broadway guy. Is he? Broadway dance. He loves it. Oh, good for him. I keep up. I think I follow him on Instagram. I love that. I'm so happy. Yeah. Tell me about your week. Tell me about the week in the life of a teacher. Thank you so much for asking. I actually have a couple of things that I can discuss about it. But this week was really fun for me, actually. And this was actually the first week where I'm like, I've been waiting for this moment since the beginning of the school year, because we're in the unit where we read a novel and the novel is Of Mice and Men. I've read. and taught this story every single year that I've been a teacher. And I do love it every single time.

7:57 I do know that it's really debatable amongst the masses, whether or not it should be taught in schools. There's all kinds of things that, I mean, literally, oh, sexism, ageism, ableism, racism, using the N word, murder. You name it, it's in the book. All in 107 pages. That's wild. It's called a novella because it's so tiny. But the whole gist of it and like why it's continued to be taught in schools is because we're supposed to see how the world once was so that we know what not to do in the future. And so that history doesn't repeat itself because how are we supposed to. I mean, you literally just said this earlier.

8:47 How do we know what's good and what's bad if we don't see what's good and what's bad? And if we don't know. Yeah. So. But like that book has been taught in schools for like ever, right? Years and years and years. It was published in the 30s. We read it when I was in high school for sure. It's in a lot of schools curriculum. Everybody, most people read it. And even though there's so many like crazy things in it like that. Um, it's the one book where every year when I see parents come in and like, we have like a parent teacher day and we all meet the teacher or whatever. I tell the parents some highlights of the curriculum for the whole year.

9:28 And they're like, of mice and men is the only book I remember from high school. And I loved it. Or it's the only book that I cared about. It was the only one that made me feel something, blah, blah, blah, blah. And it's a, I think it's a beautiful story in the grand scheme of things. And so when we finally finished it this week, I was like chapter five and chapter six. Those are the last two chapters. The kids are going to freak. I hope I because I get really invested. And that's why, like, I loved I love the act of teaching because I like teaching things that I enjoy and I enjoy reading that book and teaching that book. So I want them to be excited, too. So when some big, crazy things happen in chapter five and chapter six, I was so happy to see that the kids were like, oh, you're kidding. No, you're joking. I had a couple of kids cry. Really? Yep.

10:22 Thank God. I cried, too. I've taught this book. If you count like each period over the past six years that I've taught this book, I probably read and taught this book. 25 26 times okay and every single time I cry at least every single year I cry and I and I'm like I'm in touch with my emotions and what about you so that's good if you want to if you want to see me cry look my way if not you can mind your business whatever you want so it was really fun and Everybody was really invested. No phones. They were into it. They were listening to the audio. They were reacting. I was like, this is what I've been waiting for.

11:02 Thank God. That's the only thing that rejuvenates me with this job is. That's really cool, though, that you have like it's like something that gets you back into the flow state, because I feel like I've got a couple of professors like that where like you can tell that they really, really, really love what they're talking about. I love that. I love that you have that. Yeah. So this week we finished the book. We had like, you know, tests and quizzes over it, whatever. And now that it's almost Thanksgiving break, I'm like, guys, we're obviously just going to watch the movie rest of the week. And then the rest of this upcoming week, starting tomorrow, because we started the movie on Friday and we'll continue watching it on Monday, finish it on Tuesday.

11:48 And I'm like, it's. Before Thanksgiving break. Let's just have a chill little time. Let's have a chill little time. Yeah. I love that. This has been like a relatively good week. Good. In regards to teaching, pretty easy, pretty simple. Except this week, I do have to make sub plans for three separate days for three separate classes because I'm having a little staycation for my birthday. Good for you. Yeah. It just, it does suck a little bit to do sub plans, but. I try to make it as simple as possible because most of the subs are like old ladies. And I don't want to. We I feel like we never had like it was always like moms that were subs for us. Now, at my school, I think there are particular subs that only choose particular classes or subjects.

12:43 So I see a lot of the same two subs and both of those women are. Like 60s. In their 60s. That's OK. Yeah. I do have a new girl that's taking over my birthday days and I don't know a thing about her. I've never heard of her, but she might be old as dirt as far as I know, considering I guess we'll find out record. Yeah. Yeah. So that's the only thing that's going to be pretty annoying about the next two days is I have to make sure that I get those sub plans done. But my. department trusts me with my sub plans they every single time I have a sub they're like your sub binder is so organized and so beautiful and I'm like I know well you've always been a very thorough and organized person I've never known you to like not be that person so yeah that's okay it's i always get compliments on my sub plans in my sub binder and i always get compliments on my canvas course because everything's so well organized and by the day and that's amazing yeah and i always tell people i really only do it for my brain because my brain needs all of that um i need to make sure that everything all the t's are crossed and eyes are dotted So and then if it benefits everybody else, then that's just a bonus. So it's really only for me. I'm actually a pretty selfish person. That's OK. I think so, too. I'm glad you had a good week. Thank you.

14:13 The only thing was that I had to. I a few weeks ago, I emailed a mom. I email all of the parents of kids who have an F in my class on Fridays. Being like, hey, just want to let you know that your kid has an F in my class. If you want to know why, you can check his or her grades. Otherwise, if you have any specific questions or concerns, please message me and let me know. And for the first time, now this kid has literally like a 7 % in my class, right? How do you do that? I'm telling you right now, it is not turning in a single assignment and getting like a 2 out of 20 on quizzes. every so often, not a single assignment.

14:59 And now keep that in mind, because then for the first time this school year, mind you, I've emailed his mom every single week of the school year. She messages me for the first time and she's like, thanks so much for letting me know. I have talked to him about his missing assignments and I'm making sure that he keeps track of them. Thank you so much. And I'm like. I don't know who's lying to who. I don't know if you're lying to your son. I don't know if you're lying to me or if your son's lying to you. She's lying to herself. Or if you're lying to yourself. Yes. Because your son has literally not turned in a single assignment this quarter, not a single assignment. And at that point, there was 10, 10 classwork assignments and maybe one or two quizzes. So I was like. thanks so much for responding.

15:50 I love the support and the help. I just wanted to give you some specifics. And I told her all that. And then I was like, I'll make sure that now we have something called win periods now, which is basically what I do with them is it's 25 minutes where I'm pulling those kids that have F's in my class. And I'm like, get to work. get to work now. And then I talk to each one individually and show them their grade and tell them what to do to fix it. And I give them a place, whatever. He's always been in my win period, obviously. And so I told her he's in my win period. So I'm just going to, I'm just going to start keeping you updated on what he does and doesn't do. And I probably message her like two or three times a week being like, Yeah. So, so far I've told him to do this. He's not doing it. I've told him to do that. He's not doing it. I've reminded him about this. He's not doing it. Can I just be so for real with you? My, you know, that dear listener, you know, I don't know if you do know this, but you know that Granny and Papaw like raised me for the most part. I can definitively tell you that if Papaw ever would have gotten an email. From any teacher at Triton Central saying, hey, Travis is failing this class.

17:16 I'm just letting you know. I just wanted to keep you in the loop. I he would have gone to the school with me and he would have sat in the class with me. I believe it. And I do. I am telling you right now, if there would have been follow up emails, I don't know that I would have made it out alive. Literally. I know. I'm just I'm just telling you. And like we had knocked down drag out fights over like a C in Mr. Bridgewater's class. Like I I can't imagine what a seven percent. I don't know that I would have lived through the night. And it's so hard to imagine because I think that what's good about us is we're very.

18:02 Like we want to do good. We want to do good and we want to do well. Sure. And so I mean, have you ever failed a class before? Like F failed? Because I haven't. No, no. Right. No. And I think that's a mix of you probably wouldn't want to fail. And you also know that there would be major consequences if you did. Right. And I think that we're also pretty ambitious for the most part. Like we. We want we know that our actions have consequences and we know that the good things we do lead to good things in the future, whatever, whatever. Well, there's a level of accountability there. Exactly. That I think. was either forced on us or like we just like inherently had i don't know that i care either way but like exactly i i think that either way it's made us better people sure and it's made us be very um very self -aware of what we want to accomplish and what we need to do in order to accomplish that and i think that those are great qualities any normal person would be like great and there is such a lack of that a lack so severe and so dark and foul that it makes this job almost impossible.

19:18 It's like, I don't know how to work with you if you fear nothing. And if you care about nothing, like I'm not that way. And I, and I hate being that like back in my day, blah, blah, blah, blah. But back in my day, I just simply cared. Like you said, either because I was forced to, or because that wasn't. a trait of mine that like, I don't think I should fail. I don't think that I don't think that an F in English is the right thing to do. No, it's it's that. And then it's also like. I don't like I've never understood this, this notion of like. I like I get like everyone's forced to go to school, right? Like for for kindergarten through senior year of high school, you're forced to go to school. You don't have a way around that unless you drop out, I guess. In my mind, though, I guess I don't really understand the idea that you're going to show up and you're going to do this every single day and like you're going to get nothing out of it.

20:25 Like like what? Like, I guess I just I've never gotten that. Like what a waste of time you're making it if you are not at least listening to what's happening. Because I told you this earlier, it's nearly impossible to fail my class. If you turn in any work, you're going to get points. The only way that you ever get a zero in my class is if you do not turn things in. And so for this kid to have a 7%, mind you, that's his semester grade. quarter one was and what quarter two is so far, that 7 % is those is the average of those two. So, I mean, he probably had like a 5 % in quarter one and whatever it is for, I don't know.

21:11 I don't know math, but like he so severely doesn't care. And I did recently get a message back from that mom this week being like, thank you for letting me know. I've been talking to him about it. I've taken away his friends and his video games to see if that does anything. And so far, no luck. So it's like you don't care about school and you don't even care about consequences such as like the things that you love and the things you enjoy. Like, is nothing going to change you? And then what are you going to do outside of high school? Like, are you going to have a job? Are you? going to go to college are you like he has i don't think college is in the cards of course seven percent well what's funny about this is at the beginning of this quarter i had them do an american dream presentation where like the book has to do with you know the 1930s it was the great depression and before that was the whole idea and concept of the american dream i asked them to do a four slide, one of them being a title slide. So basically a three slide presentation on what is your American dream?

22:20 Any aspect of it? What home do you want? Do you want a family? Do you want kids? Do you want dogs? What kind of hobbies do you want? What kind of cars do you want? All those things. If you could achieve anything you dreamed of, what would it be? Slide one. Slide two is what would be your hypothetical plan to achieve that dream? If in this world, 2025, if that was possible, i .e. it's absolutely not. And then slide three would be what are some potential obstacles in your way? So. easiest thing in the entire world. You don't need any internet for it. It's all opinion based, basically. And he still won't do that. So me asking this question, like, what are you ambitious about? I don't even know. I don't know what this kid wants. I don't know what he dreams. I don't know what kind of job he wants in the future. I don't know if he wants to go to college. And it's funny because I asked him those things through this incredibly easy presentation and he won't do that. So I can't even tell you like. What does this kid want?

23:23 Have you ever asked him directly? Like, just like, hey, like, what's good? What do you what are you doing? Absolutely. What's the answer? He shrugs. He doesn't talk. He I've heard him say words before a few, but he is so just like I think it's a mix of. He's completely disconnected, and so he just doesn't need to talk to people or teachers or anything. But like I've asked him, I said. this assignment is now four and a half weeks past its due date and I've asked you to do it for the past three weeks in when period and you haven't done it so like is there a reason and he shrugs and I'm like okay do you just feel like not motivated to do to do this particular assignment or like just not motivated for school in general like what's what's the deal shrug and at that point I'm like OK, go away. I can't. I need something. I can't help you more than you're helping yourself. And that's sometimes where I become. Well, that's the hard part is like with anything you you genuinely can. I mean, it's it's with addiction. It's with like this education system. It's with any of it. You cannot help someone more than they want to help themselves. Absolutely. And that's hard.

24:43 And it's very hard when you're a teacher because you internalize it in different ways. Like. I want to make sure that all of my students succeed at some capacity, even if that means like they get a D and that's the best they can do. I want them to have that, but I also want them to earn that. And I'm not going to spoon feed them every step of the way. And I'm not going to bend over backwards if they're not willing to make any commitments to better themselves in that way. And so sometimes over the years, there have just been kids where. I can't get through to them. I never will. And some of them have even told me like, you should just stop trying so hard.

25:24 That happened to me last year. I had a kid that was again, like failing, failing, failing, failing, failing. And every single week I'd be like, okay, all I need from you this week is this assignment. Turn it in. I'm begging you. I would do anything possible. And one day he was like, you know, you don't have to try this hard. Right. And I was like, what do you mean? He's like, I'm going to be really real with you. I truly don't care about this class and it's not you and it's not this class. I just don't care in general. I'm not going to do the work that you asked me to do. I'm OK with you giving me zeros and I'll sit and I'll listen and I won't be on my phone.

26:06 But you can stop trying. How sad is that? I feel so conflicted about that because on some level, like I think if I was in your position, that's like if that's kind of the position I'm in, you don't have to hide your drink. I don't want them to hear me slur. They're not going to hear it. It's fine. On some level, I think if I was in your position, I think that's the answer I would want to hear. I'm like, OK, there's nothing I can do. But at that point, I think it's like, OK. What do I have to do to change that answer? And like, I don't know that there is an answer to that question. So that's hard. Because at that point, I think that all I did was I went ahead and contacted mom and I was like, hey, this kid's not in trouble at all. But I do want you to know where his head is at in case you've seen this, because that also just sounds it almost sounds like a cry for help. I mean, yeah, how how sad it is to just like. I don't care stop caring stop trying to help me stop trying to fix me it seems like some sort of cry for help so I did reach out to mom and be like this kid is not in trouble in any way shape or form I'm happy that he was open and honest with me but this is what he said today and I just wanted it to be on your radar and apparently I mean he had some other stuff going on he I mean he was failing all of his classes basically and there was some crazy things going on like not

27:39 in his home life but like with his friends and like a significant other like kids go through things uh crazy things i think that we don't give kids enough credit for that but yeah for sure at the same time like i think on some level you i mean not you i thought parents and like a society in general like we have to figure out a way to like how to like shield kids from that because like it growing up is hard like and i i think that's something that we don't like actually think about enough like i mean like you and me like like when we had for like all intents and purposes like incredible lives growing up we had incredible people yeah but Our lives were like on some level still kind of nightmares in a lot of ways. Like the divorce, we had like addiction issues in the family. We had like so many other things that were like extenuating circumstances. And I don't think that people give that enough credit sometimes. Absolutely.

28:37 And I think that we deserve a lot of credit from that as well, that we had really powered through that despite all of the things and all of the adversities. all the terrible things that were happening on the sidelines where we're still very successful and well -rounded people. I don't mean to toot my horn and I don't mean to toot yours, but here we are. Toot, toot. The boot's down. You know what I mean? So that's great. And what sucks is I see a lot of my kids going through a lot of things. I have very much a lot of faith that they're going to power through it and come out successful on the other side.

29:22 And then I see kids that I'm like, this is going to eat you alive. And what also sucks is I'm now at the point in my career where I mean, this happens at any point, literally, like it happened my first year of teaching. But like kids are dying. Kids are missing. Kids have cancer. Kids have all kinds of things. I Jesus Christ. It's when my first year of teaching, I also coached cheerleading. One of my cheerleaders died and it was the most devastating. I was like, this is the this is the lowest I will ever be in this career. It was the most devastating thing that had ever happened to me at that point. I have a girl right now who's very sweet, very quiet, very so incredibly smart. She has a cyst on her brain and she has to get surgery for that. Like, I think during Thanksgiving break, if I'm not mistaken. And I'm told she's now having seizures and eye problems because of it. And I'm like, oh, my. And then a boy's kid, a boy's kid, a boy's dad just died. like 15 years old and you don't have your dad anymore. Like it's all so devastating. Yeah. And that's an interesting thing about being a teacher is I think that at some level, if you're a teacher, you have some form of empathy or some level of it. Oh, you have to. Yeah. And it's incredibly difficult

30:53 to see the things that kids go through these days, or at least people in general that I've, I've been very privileged to not experience. And To imagine being in their shoes and going through what they're going through. It's devastating. Well, you've also always been the person you like. You've always had very big feelings. And like you more than anyone I know have like you take on other people's feelings. Like Emma's the same way. Like she feels like other people's pain on a level that like I either like disassociate from or like I just don't feel because I'm like, I know. Well, I think that's very healthy at a general level to not take that on. But it's I always say it's a gift and a curse to, you know, have empathy and to be as empathetic as like what you're talking about with Emma and with me, where like we we feel for a person so severely that it physically hurts. It it it drains the life out of you. Especially my first couple of years of teaching. It was so hard. Like I'm being a first year and second year teacher is hard enough. But then on top of I'm really internalizing everything that's coming my way. And it was just constant crying, constant crying. And I'm a little better about that now. But something like this happens, like someone's dad dying or, you know, kids get cancer all the time. My sister Bailey

32:23 had. a student at her school a few years ago that had cancer and died and just the you know in elementary school especially it's it's like a community yeah and like those kids when you're a kid you just kind of hang out with anybody and you just know everybody and the school was absolutely devastated well like first of all like you don't really have a concept of death right like I remember when you were too young to remember this but when grandma joe died i like i remember because papa and huck were the ones that like went and found her like that was that's a whole that's a whole different story i'll tell you that one day wow but yeah like so they went to her house they knew she was dead and then like this was before i was in third grade so i don't think that we had cell phones yet and um i remember them pulling into the driveway and like I just remember like like because it was Denise's grandma and I remember like just the entire world shattering for her and I like I could not conceptualize what was happening because like we had never been exposed to death like we never knew that and then even like when Roy died like because you remember Roy's funeral like it was like I mean vicky throwing herself like on the ground like the whole song and dance of it like rt who i mean he was like 19 years

33:57 old at the time like getting up and like having to to talk about it and like like like at 16 i was like okay like i i knew what death was but like we'd never really experienced death and so like for a kid to like see like one of their friends that's just not there anymore like Where do you put that? What do you do with that? I don't know. It's absolutely insane. I do also talk about all the time how privileged and how blessed we are that we still have our granny and papa. Yeah. The world is going to end when one of them or both of them are gone. Emma and I have talked a lot about that. We're like. Like, I think it will fundamentally like change, like the foundation of who we are as people, because like. I don't know what to do with that. Like I like even. Like I like because I mean, for me, like they were my parents, like I like that's just like that's just what that is. Yeah. So I don't know. I don't know. And hopefully we don't have to know for a while longer. Hopefully.

35:03 Hopefully. This week at school was good. I'm glad it was a good week for you. My week was trash. What happened? I was sick as a dog this week. No way. I woke up on Sunday. And I felt like I had been run over by a train. I like and do you remember the beginning of covid where like there was some bug going around and like everyone was like, oh, this is like the flu is bad this year, like that whole song and dance that people were doing. And then like we hear about the novel coronavirus coming out of out of Wuhan, China or whatever it was. And I'm like, I. It's giving very much like pre -COVID vibes.

35:46 Oh no. Because like I talked to like six or seven people that had the exact same thing. But like I, it was bad. Like I got to the point on like Tuesday or Wednesday night where I was like laying in the bed and I was like, I think I might need to go to the ER. Like I could not breathe. Like it was bad. Oh my God. And like I took a COVID test. It wasn't COVID. Like it wasn't anything. And then like I had the. like a virtual appointment with my doctor. And she was like, yeah, this is like a, it's like an upper respiratory thing going around. It's really, really, really rough. And I still have like, I'm still like signed to see or whatever, but I'm fine now. But like, yeah, it was a trash week. Oh, what a nightmare. Yeah. I've been kind of waiting for something like that to happen to me because every single year that I've been a teacher, I've gotten COVID.

36:31 Mind you, I've had all my shots, whatever, whatever. And thankfully. Every time I've gotten COVID because I've had the shots, it's not as bad, but I've had it and I've had to quarantine every single year. But this year I haven't. And I'm waiting for the ball to drop. I'm expecting it. I'm kind of cut this because it sounds bad. I'm kind of looking forward to it because I love not going to work and I love just quarantining at home. I have a question. Yeah. If you had to redo. Like the shutdown, like all of it all over again. Like if we had what we were told was going to be two weeks, it ended up being like a year. What would you do differently? This is like a fun question I do like to ask people.

37:18 Like, would you would you like, I guess, do anything differently? Here's I honestly had a had a really OK time in quarantine and I. You know, I did what everybody else did. You know, I stayed home and I I was on TikTok. TikTok was like very, very new at that time. And everybody was making the the frothed coffee and was, you know, doing all the lip syncing and the dancing and stuff. And I really enjoyed doing silly things like that. I actually have a lot of really good memories of that time. I'm very. blessed that nobody around me was terribly affected by COVID or anything like that but there were like my sister Bailey and I we were still technically in college I when COVID happened I was in the middle of my student teaching and so I was still when COVID right when COVID started I was taking over the Canvas courses and the Canvas pages and Taking over the lessons, I was actually supposed to completely take the reins of the classes that I was student teaching in. And I was supposed to be like the teacher. And so I did that for a couple of weeks. And during those couple of weeks, my sister and I, we would drive to the parking lot of a Starbucks in Whitestown. And we would just sit in the car at that. In the

38:50 Starbucks parking lot and take the Wi -Fi and just do work together in the car. I love that. It was beautiful. Honestly, it was really fun because I'm also a very independent and very introverted person. We talked about this a little bit last episode. And so I really enjoyed not having to be so around so much around people. I'm actually really OK being alone and I'm really comfortable in being alone. And even when I was just with Bailey or just with my family, I really enjoyed that, honestly. And I think that it was a rest that as a really stressed out 22 year old college student, I needed that. But of course, that's also kind of a crazy thing to say, because so many people were dying and so many people were having a horrible time. And there's also even if we. look past the atrocities of COVID itself during that time there were lots of people that are very much extroverted and very much social beings that were desperate for connection at that time and I did feel for that at some level of course I didn't agree just based on my own experiences but I felt so bad for people that wanted something so bad and couldn't have it do you remember My birthday in 2020? No. You don't remember this? No, tell me about it. Where

40:22 you and Paley brought Olive Garden to my apartment at Solana because I was that person that, like, I think I called you in the middle of the night one night and I was like... i'm going to kill myself like i cannot handle being alone i cannot handle any of this because like it was it was two weeks to stop the spread like that's what we were told the whole time and i was like i'm like i can do two weeks like whatever like we we all went home from work like it was like we were sent home and like i remember like And the like, I remember like it was yesterday, like we like because it was like we have to figure out how to work from home. So like they sent us home with like these Wi -Fi boxes that like connected to like our works network, but like didn't like it. It was a whole song and dance.

41:09 But I remember like walking out of there with my monitors and I was like, wow, this is a lot for just two weeks. And I remember thinking that. And then I remember going to my apartment at Solana and I was like, OK, here we go. Two weeks. Two weeks. And then I remember calling you and I was like, it's been a little more than two weeks, Josh. I don't know. And then my birthday rolls around. And yeah, you and Bailey had to bring me Olive Garden because like I was on the verge of literally throwing myself off a balcony. See, that's so tough. Do you not remember that? Well, mind you, that was also the time in which I was starting. Now, I. I don't have a thyroid anymore. And it was because it literally started like erasing my memory. Like my thyroid doctor told me I was in the early stages of like early onset dementia. So there are a lot of times between 2017 to 2022. I actually don't remember. Oh, there's a lot of things that I don't remember during those times. I forgot so many things and it cost me so much money. I mean, we shouldn't even talk about the fact that I forgot about oil changes. I do remember you forgetting about an oil change. Dear listener, I forgot that oil changes were a thing. I don't even I don't even know how long I drove my car without an oil change.

42:38 It's like three years. Probably. Yeah. And then I remember Huck opening it up and be like, huh, there's nothing in here. Yeah. I had to get that thing out of my body for sure. It was rotting me from the inside out. So there's a lot of things I actually don't remember. Well, now we know. Isn't that kind of silly? Yeah. So, yeah, I'm glad that we did that. That seems like a nice thing to do. It was a nice thing to do. Thank God. Cool. So in order to prepare for today's reality roundup, you watched the first half of season one of The Real Housewives of Salt Lake City. Oh, yeah. And that for me. Is a gift I wish I could give myself because this is your first this is the first time you've really watched The Real Housewives in general. It's my first dive into any Real Housewives ever. Yes. So my first time I think about that and like I think to myself. So Real Housewives of Salt Lake City was announced, I think, 2019 or 2020. I think that, yeah, they wrapped filming right before the shutdown. So, OK, 2020, 2021 is when it was premiering. And I remember thinking to myself, I thought the same thing about Salt Lake City that I thought about Potomac before it premiered, where I was like, get this off of my TV. I don't want these like what I thought were mid -tier cities. Because when you think of Real Housewives, you think of like Miami, Orange County, New York, Beverly Hills. And I was like, I cannot believe

44:10 how wrong I was, because I remember it was we were in the middle of covid and I had nothing else to do. So I was like, well, let me let me just fire up the real house. I was a Salt Lake City. Yeah. And oh, Lord, have mercy. Am I glad that I did that? Because I like I loved it so much. Tell me about what your experience has been watching the first nine episodes of season one. Yes, of course. And first of all, thank you for it. You said it best, the gift that it is to not just start this like Real Housewives journey, but to start it with Salt Lake City. I already love the now going into it very late, like five years late is really good for me because I'm already obsessed with the secret lives of Mormon wives. And so the idea of like Utah, Mormon, all this stuff I'm I'm familiar with. I. I enjoy having some sense of familiarity when it comes to jumping into new things like this. So I had that. You had me sold. And then so let me give you a rundown of the things that I've learned and the things that I've been enjoying. You've mentioned the name, the first and last name of Jen Shaw before. Yes. So when I heard that this is Jen, the Jen Shaw, I was like. it's baby's first time with Jen Sean. I'm so excited. I was like, let me just sit in this moment. Let me hold space for it. It was so exciting. And then I also remember the name Meredith Marks. I don't

45:41 know if it was like from the episodes you and Emma had done or whatever, but I was like, I recognize that name as well. So I had taken very extensive notes of the first three episodes because I just wanted to make sure that I got all my bearings, that I knew who everyone was, who everyone was connected to, who's friends with who, who's not friends with who. Um, I am almost so thankful and so blessed to have experienced some piece of the Jen and Mary saga. Every single episode, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight and nine. It is always mentioned. And I honestly think it's really funny. I thought that it was the funniest. Now, I remember you and Emma doing this episode talking about how. Jen had come from the hospital because her aunt had her legs amputated. And then Mary said that it smelled like hospital. And first of all, I think that's so funny. I think that's the funniest thing in the whole world. And I thought that it was even funnier when Jen had confronted her about it.

46:46 And Mary was like, I did say that. And what? Like, what do we do now? A gift. And so very early on, I. started making notes of like, OK, who do I love and why? And where is this going to go? And my list of who I love and who I hate has changed every episode. It will change every episode. It will change every season. Yeah, it's wild. I'm really excited to see where that takes me. But, you know, it hasn't changed through episodes one through nine. Tell me. I love Whitney. I love that girl. She's she's my girl. I love her. And I remember you asking Emma and Emma asking you if you could be friends with anybody in this season, who would it be? I hope and pray that I could be friends with Whitney. I think she's so funny. I think she's so cool. I think she's so gorgeous. And I think that she's also beyond what we saw in episode nine. The most.

47:54 level -headed and well -rounded and i think that's because she's had now i know that they've all had their fair share of um like things happening in their lives and adversities and stuff but i think that whitney is so real because she has seen and has been so deeply ingrained into the process of getting through her dad's addiction and stuff like that and i feel like that probably made her Grow up very quickly, especially because she's I mean, throughout these episodes, she's, you know, insinuating that she's paid thirty thousand dollars for his rehab and that she is felt like he thinks he's entitled to that. Yes.

48:43 Which is so sick to think of your daughter in that way. Like you owe me because I. I think in one of these recent episodes I watched that she had explained my dad made a list of everything. All the things that he had paid for growing up. Yes, like dances, sports, cars, everything. And I'm like, how absolutely sick and twisted is that? And that's what addiction does to you. It really shifts your priorities and what matters to you and things like that. And it's just so sad to. See her having to go through all these things, but I think that that made her a very well -rounded woman with a good head on her shoulders.

49:26 Although I am so excited to talk about it. I am excited to talk about episode nine. I will tell you in episode nine, it will shift for you. And I'm going to tell you. So I will say Whitney Rose is. Of all of the Housewives of Salt Lake City, between her, Heather and Meredith Marks, those are really my top three that I would want to meet and be friends with. Absolutely. You will have a hard time with Whitney in season three. I'm just going to tell you that right now. Keep it to yourself. Well, that's actually now that I'm saying this out loud, I think you might not have as hard of a time as I did with her because. Yeah. So you're I'm going to I'm just going to let you experience it on your own.

50:11 The journey she goes on in season three and. Season four, part of season four. And I think you and I are going to view it in two very, very different ways. Not like, OK, not like not that I view as what she did negatively, but I think that I got to the point where I was like, if I have to hear about this one more time, like I'm going to shut the TV off for sure. You, I think, will be much more open to it. OK, I can't wait. So before we jump into reality roundup for episode nine, I am so excited because Christmas is coming early. Miss Jennifer Shaw is being released from prison on December 10th. Merry Christmas. She is going to get to spend Christmas with Coach Shaw. I bet she misses him bad. I bet she does, too. She's been lonely. She's been lonely. Episode one through nine. Him being away recruiting. How about you being in jail, Mama?

51:11 How are you doing? How about? I hope he's been visiting. How are they doing? Now, mind you, I literally don't know. So I know that he has been running her social media as far as I know. So, like, I assume that. Well, she can't run it from prison. Well, I feel like you just shouldn't be running it at all if you're in prison. I got to tell you, Jen Shaw's never been one to shy away from the spotlight. But I. I don't know. I assume they're doing fine. Like, I, I don't know. Great. I would like if she doesn't come back to Real Housewives of Salt Lake City, because Andy Cohen did say, like, I don't want to see her again. I hope he changes his mind on that.

51:53 But if she doesn't come back, I would really like to see, like, just a sit down interview with the two of them just to be like, hey, this is the story. Incredible idea. You were convicted of it. Let's just call it what it is. Let's just put it out all out on the table. And everybody already knows. Yeah, it's OK. No, it's not OK, but everybody already knows. So it's OK for you to just say what happened. Everybody wants to know everybody. And you should hold yourself accountable because I only know as far as what you've said in previous episodes, like she stole money from old people. Or like what's. Yes. Can you give me like a 10 second recap? So she her companies that it was all. OK, so she it all surrounded a telemarketing scheme where she would reach out to people like her and her associates and they would sell them like a business opportunity and they would like get them on a subscription where it was like charging their credit card every month for whatever the business consulting services were. that had no value and said they were like selling them a website and then like it was like okay you're you're in too deep okay like how do we get you out of this so then I guess they were and I don't know that I don't know the details of how this happened but then I guess on the other side of it there was like okay well how do we get you in touch with the debt consolidation company and they were like

53:24 getting kickbacks from the debt consolidation company maybe I don't know but it was just selling services of no value is what the The long and short of it was. Now, was the purpose of that for Jen Shaw to get more money? Mm hmm. What's now? Here's the thing that I don't understand. And maybe because I'm just not in this position, but I feel like when you are at a certain amount of rich, you just don't need to have more money and you don't need to want to have more money. That's where the money was coming from, though. What? All of her money? All of it? I think there were like other marketing deals or something, but like the majority of the money was coming in from that telemarketing scheme and then Coach Shaw's income. Well, I was going to say, doesn't Coach Shaw just have enough income as a as a college football coach? I think he was making like four hundred thousand a year. Like here's here's the thing. And this is this is what a lot of people. Will tell you about the real housewives that have been caught up in this thing, like Teresa Giudice, like Tom Girardi, like these.

54:36 These real housewives that were like at the level of mega, mega, mega wealth. There's a there's like a need to keep this facade going. We're like Teresa Giudice and Joe Giudice, like their whole thing became I think it was mortgage fraud is what they ended up mortgage fraud or wire fraud. One of the two. Where. It not if it was real, it was all smoke and mirrors, and then the same thing with Tom Girardi, where like it became like a Ponzi scheme, like where he was, he was the Aaron Brockovich lawyer where he was bringing in like money from class action lawsuits and he was paying the money from like a previous lawsuit with the money from the current lawsuit.

55:19 And. some clients weren't getting paid out at all. So, like, the wheels start to fall off. And then, like, you look at the optics of, like, how is this going? And then it's like, you've got the same thing going on in Potomac right now where Wendy and Eddie Acefo just got arrested for insurance fraud. There's, I mean, housewives will tell you there's a need to, like, keep up a facade that's not there. But that's what happened with Jen Shah is... The money was coming in from the telemarketing scheme that there wasn't money there to begin with. Mm hmm. Yeah. Horrible. Hate that. Very crazy. I guess I just can't.

56:02 I can't really wrap my mind around. And it's kind of like the whole thing with, you know, Jeff Bezos and all these terribly, terribly rich people. It's like, what do you what is the purpose of having this? amount of money and like the need and the drive to just constantly constantly constantly work and have more and more and more which kind of at a very much like lower level is kind of what Lisa is exuding is she is she even said like her work comes first always and it's like you have a husband and kids like and she doesn't want to she wants to keep having projects she wants to keep having opportunities and I feel so bad to For her that she's in that mindset that like that's what she needs. And I know that we know people like that. Our Papal is like that. Absolutely. But it's not about the money, I don't think. For Lisa? For Papal.

56:57 Well, for Papal, probably not. But what about Lisa? I think Lisa's like our Papal. Like, I don't know that it's about the money. I think the money is probably a really good incentive. I don't think for her it's about the money, though. I think that there is a level of worth you put on. at the end of the day did i accomplish something i i true i like with with lisa i do see that right i i don't think it's about the money at all for lisa barlow good well you know more than i do so i trust that there's that um are you ready to jump into episode nine i couldn't be more ready okay hip -hop and heartbreak so We start with opening shots. Heather and Whitney are horseback riding. And I like that instructor.

57:41 I thought he was very hot. For sure. And I'm really into. Heather and her sexual bag. Yes. I need it so desperately. I need it so desperately. I want I feel so bad for her through all these episodes of her talking about our divorce and how she really only did it for, you know, being a perfect little Mormon. And like, I mean, how could you get a more. perfect Mormon husband than this. Than Billy. Than Billy. Yeah. And I think I heard probably in this episode or the last one that she said that she just started saying no to him. It was this episode. It was this episode. I have notes about that. Yeah.

58:22 So like, how sad is that? Like you start being your own person and setting boundaries and then your husband leaves you. What a nightmare. Yeah. I mean, I don't know if that's all that was happening, but I mean, I believe it. She talks about it in her book. I mean, that's basically what happened. She's got two books. Well, I have to read them because I'll also be reading Macy's soon. Oh, I can't wait to read Macy's book. I can't wait. We should read it at the same time. OK. Bad Mormon is the first book and then Good Time Girl is the second book. I've read Bad Mormon. I'm like halfway through Good Time Girl. Bad Mormon is a very good book because it like. Like as far as Housewives books are concerned, it's all about like, oh, yeah, this is my life. And they give you a little bit of like behind the scenes, like about the other women or like the show itself.

59:10 But like, I think Heather was very. I think she was like, I really want to tell this story to like help people who are struggling with like faith or whatever. So I think that was a really cool book for her. Awesome. We head over to Lisa's house and she asked Jack if he wants anything for breakfast. And Jack says, I'm not really craving a microwave hot dog right now, but thanks. I thought that was the funniest thing. So funny. That was so funny. Because like a lot of these housewives are like, oh, I never cook like I never cook. And, you know, it's like all a crock. I wholeheartedly believe what Lisa presents to us on TV where she's constantly going through a Taco Bell drive through or. Like driving to get a Diet Coke. I wholeheartedly believe that is her when the cameras are off. I believe it.

59:54 So like I believe it in my bones. And that was one of the big notes that I had for episode one was like her talking about, oh, we're not the kind of family that's together at dinner. We're going through the Taco Bell drive through going through this drive through going through that drive through hitting this gas station. I thought that was so funny because that's not necessarily the facade. Or like the energy that she exudes. Like I had told you through texts this week that like I feel like Lisa in a lot of ways is so chic and so cool and so classy. And I really love the dichotomy of her giving classy chic boots and her going through the Taco Bell drive through and getting Diet Cokes at the gas station three times a day. I think that's the funniest thing in the world. I love it. And like, you're going to get to an episode, I think at the end of season two, where Mary Cosby looks at her and she goes, you eat Taco Bell. And Lisa Barlow's like, I love Taco Bell. I love it so much. She goes, love that. Love Taco Bell. Love Taco Bell.

1:01:01 I also love Lisa Barlow's voice. Like, I know it's a little bit like controversial because some people think it's so grating. I love Lisa Barlow's voice. I think it's so. funny yeah i love it so much i love i in a lot of ways i love lisa i do too but then it like the i don't know which episode it was but i was like i hate this woman i think she's so mean and so rude was it the ski trip episode probably yeah the one where they went to the ski lodge and like she was so hateful to whitney and heather yeah i i wrote it down i did yeah yeah it was it was episode two yeah she was a nightmare in that episode i hate her for it We head over to Jen's house and Jen and her assistant are planning Sharif's surprise birthday party. You will come to find out that this assistant, I think it's season three, we find out that she's multi -talented because she's got a side gig being a twerking instructor and her name is Crystal Pussy. Incredible.

1:02:00 She and Whitney would be good friends based on what we've seen in previous episodes. Maybe. Maybe. Everyone's invited to Sharif's party except for Mary. And then we cut over to Mary at her house and she doesn't know how many houses she owns. But we find out she has a house in Carmel. I feel like I've heard about this. I don't know if it was through like my dad's husband or something or if it was. I don't know who it was, but somebody had told me that a housewife does have a house in Carmel, Indiana. And I could not for the life of me figure out who it was. So then when I heard that, I was like, it's her. It was like five minutes from where I lived at the rail yard. Really? Yeah. And I did hear what she said is true. That is completely empty all year round.

1:02:41 I don't know. I wish I could remember who told me that. But that person said the exact same thing. Nobody's in that house. Yeah. Well, so I remember reading an article from someone that lived in the neighborhood because it's like I'm not going to dox her, but like it's I know this neighborhood very well. Yeah. And. The one of the neighbors was like, yeah, we've never met her. We don't know who this woman is. Yeah, that's so funny. A couple of things about this surprise party. I want you to know that if you ever find out that somebody's throwing me a surprise party. I need you to either shoot them or shoot me beforehand.

1:03:24 I. I hate the idea of a surprise party. Why? I have to know everything. I like the idea of a surprise party. I like I like the idea. This is so sick. I like the idea of pretending to be surprised. I think I'd want to know because like what an honor and a privilege. Someone's planning a surprise. Actually, you know what? I take that back. I would want a surprise party. OK. Yeah. And I love that for you. I think that a part of it is also I don't want to party. I don't want to party. If I want to hang out with people on my birthday, it can probably be like two or three people. I would much I would much rather be smaller. I agree with you on that. Yeah. Yeah. Like Mary wants. Yes. Small and intimate. Oh, God. I think that was all I was going to say. OK. So we got over to Mary at her house and she's on FaceTime with. Wait, is this? Yeah.

1:04:13 She's on FaceTime with Robert Sr. And. She starts to have a little bit of a breakdown and starts crying about the issues with Jen. And I've I've said several times that, like, I do not know that the actual issue really revolves around the hospital spell comment. I think what what Jen Shaw has done with Mary up to this point is like, I'm going to make an enemy out of you and I'm going to make you feel othered. And I think that's what she's experiencing here. And she also feels like the other girls took Jen's side. because the other girls are terrified of Jen. Right. And we've seen like three or four times up until this point, like Jen having full blown meltdowns, like like having freakouts, like the complete explosions. And I will buy that on some level. I don't know if terrified is the word, but I will buy on some level that people are like, I can't handle this. Yeah. Like growing up, like and like love him to death now.

1:05:11 But like Miles was like this growing up. Like it was like, I'm going to make your life a living hell. And I'm just going to scream at you and scream at you until the point where it's like, OK, whatever you want. I don't care. I don't want to do this with you anymore. Right. Yeah. And I think that as 30 and 40 year old women, I don't think that you have to subject yourself to people who have that kind of attitude. and have that issue where you're just going to blow up. Like, that's what, you know, by the end of episode nine, I'm like, you're a 40 something year old woman. What are you doing in public in front of 150 plus people acting like this? Oh, I have a lot of thoughts about this. We will get to this because like the we'll get to it.

1:05:52 Yeah. Yeah. um we had we had over to have we head over to heather's house for valentine's day and uh billy comes over with gifts for the girls and i love i actually really just love that heather was honest about this she goes billy was tall cool and rich which checked all of her boxes for sure as the boxes should be there yes absolutely and tall cool and rich is really Those are my boxes, too. So that'll do it. Whatever. That'll do it. They get engaged after three months of knowing each other. And then we find out that, like, just we get a sneak peek into, like, how their marriage was. And I guess the beginning of the end was they went to see Scary Movie 3, which is an old choice for a Mormon couple, by the way. Absolutely. I was also like, hmm, that is a choice that you made. Yeah. Interesting.

1:06:42 But when the scene with the Gloria happened, Billy stormed out and Heather didn't really see a problem with it. So Billy decided that he was just going to be rotten to her. And that's where things start to fall apart. Right. And then ultimately, Billy left. And you mentioned this earlier because Heather wouldn't change the time of a baptism for one of their daughters to accommodate a sister. So he said, OK, make it whenever you want. And I'll just move out next week. And that is so I mean, I don't even have to say how disgusting and crazy that is and how sad it is. And I think that it also makes me really sad that Heather is so really torn up about it. And maybe it's just because it is a divorce of a marriage. And there's also other cultural and societal expectations given them being Mormon that she's so devastated about this divorce. Whereas like if I were with somebody like that and like some time has passed, I'd be like, thank God. I so I have. Tried to piece this timeline together in my head. I think that it was much more recent than we knew, because like, I don't I don't know if she's mentioned it up until this point, but like, I don't think that that much time had passed. But like, I also think that it makes me really sad for Heather.

1:07:58 But on some level, I feel. Not sad for Billy, but like I feel bad that like that's that was Billy's worldview where like he said. The Mormonism thing is like is the number one important thing to me. Everything else is a deal breaker. And if you aren't going to conform to like exactly what I want, it's over. And I'm like, why? Why wasn't that more important to you? I guess like that's kind of my question. And that makes me sad a little bit. It's extremely sad, especially because, I mean, I know that when you're from what I've gathered from this season of Housewives and Secret Lives of Mormon Wives, like when you are married to somebody from the Mormon church, you are married, not just. like for the rest of your lives, but for eternity. And like, even if you divorce that person, you're also stuck with them in eternity. This is something that comes up in the reunion of season one. Yeah.

1:09:02 So it's being called sealed in the church. So you can get married and then it's just like a normal marriage or whatever. But then if you get sealed in the church, you're sealed for all eternity to your husband. And this is some, was it? I think Miranda on The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives talked about where she said she's. Like, well, what was it like? She's like just kind of like stuck out in the middle of nowhere because her husband or her ex -husband got married to someone else. So. So she can't be with her husband. Well, ex -husband. I don't remember what it is like, but it sounds very daunting and scary.

1:09:44 Yes. No matter what it is. You know, my whole feelings about religion, but like that's that's what it all is, is just to scare people. Honestly, yeah. Yeah. And I just feel so bad for everybody involved that like, especially if. I don't know how old Billy and Heather were when they got married, but for a lot of 23. Yeah. For like a lot of Mormons, you're in your late teens, early twenties, making this serious commitment after only a lot of the times, a few months of dating. And I'm sure that especially being brought up in that kind of religion and that kind of society, you just want to be as perfect as you can and you just want to do the right thing. And I think that it's also devastating and. Heather is a big person to be talking about this in this season where when you're Mormon, you're striving for perfection and the endless pursuit of perfection and all things. Absolutely. And so I feel so bad that that is so deeply ingrained in Heather that she probably has this internalized notion of like, I'm so deeply not perfect because my marriage is failing because of this, because of that. And and with. It's just so it's it's devastating to imagine what actually is going on in her heart and her mind after knowing that you are supposed to be perfect and everything had fallen apart for her. Well, she does get into that a little bit. She she talks a lot about it, like when it's when she's like writing the bad Mormon book and like. So a lot of this does

1:11:14 come up, but like she does acknowledge in this episode that she only got married. to be married and to have an eternal family because like that's, that's the, that's the vision you're sold. And we grew up in a church like this, by the way, like we, we were told the most important thing you can do as a woman is be a mother. Like that's, I very vividly remember hearing that in Sunday school classes. Right. And I'm like, you, if, if you're like, I mean, I guess it is indoctrinated. Like that's the word, but it's like, if that's, if that's the vision you're sold. on some level yeah you you feel like you have to check that box right yeah but and I think she feels a little bit conflicted because she's she does she does say that she feels thankful that they're divorced but like she feels like she's out on an island because you're living in the Mormon capital of the world and like and I mean even today like because your mom talked about this where she felt like after she got divorced there was like a Like a cloud over her at some point. So I think there's still like a stigma to it. That's kind of gross. Absolutely. I feel so bad about that.

1:12:21 She did say it in this episode. Like, I don't know if like ostracized was the word, but that's like, you know, a synonym to it. She just feels ostracized and she's worried sick about her kids feeling the same way, especially because they're kind of like not going to church, kind of going when they want kind of situation. And she she just knows that a lot of things. are going to affect her and affect her family in the way that she and her family are perceived. And what a what a huge weight on your shoulders, especially having all of that just in your community and then also putting it on TV. Well, putting it on TV. And then I think the level between that is like. I look at Heather and I look at all the moms on Salt Lake City and like these are these are good, good, good moms. I cannot imagine what it's like to say. Yeah, like there's there's a dark cloud floating over me, but like you also found I don't know if you found out later in the season or if you find out. I don't know when we got it up, but I know she talks about. Yeah, like the girls stop getting invited to birthday parties at one point. And like. What do you do with that? Yeah. And like, I hate that there's a lot of. There's a lot of things happening in these past few episodes where these moms are blaming themselves for what's happening in their kids' lives. I think it was Meredith blaming herself for Seth not going to Brooks' fashion show. She blamed herself. And I'm like, Meredith

1:13:52 has got to stop doing that. I can't hear this out of her mouth one more time. It's Seth's choice to stay, to like. Be with his son in an important moment. If he if he genuinely wants to give Meredith space, they can sit three chairs away from each other. They can sit across the room from each other. Be there for your son. Don't ever put the blame on Meredith for that. I hate that. Meredith blamed herself. I don't think I've ever blamed Meredith. I think. Yes, that is true. What I will buy is that. Seth probably could have done more. Yes, absolutely. But at some point, like I do feel like Meredith said, I need space. And I think Seth with the best of intentions was trying to do that. And I like but you know, the road to hell is paved with the best of intentions.

1:14:40 So I like I can't entirely blame Seth, but like I. I don't ever want to blame Meredith for anything. Exactly. It was very damned if you do, damned if you don't. Right. But then we see Whitney heading over to Mary's house. Mary counts out her chicken nuggets at the beginning of that scene. Did you notice that where she goes one, two, three on the plate? I did not notice. Why did you do that? I don't know, but that was the most insane thing ever to me because I've. Never once in my life thought about how many chicken nuggets I eat in a sitting. That's just unless it is a 10 piece nugget from McDonald's and I'm making sure that there are 10 or more in there.

1:15:22 That's the only time I'm counting my nuggets. I never knew. But Whitney walks into the house and Mary makes people that walk into her house where those little construction booty things. Yeah, she does. I'd be so offended, honestly. I totally get the premise of like shoes are so dirty. And I even get the premise of like, I don't want you to wear your outside clothes on the bed. I totally get all of those things. Sure. But like, I would be a tiny bit offended if somebody was like, I need you to wear these little booties. I just assume when I go to anyone's house and it's like a shoes off house, like. I don't see why you wouldn't just say, hey, like, can you pop your shoes off or whatever? Like, I don't.

1:16:09 Let her have her dogs out. That is so crazy. Yeah. In her literal stilettos that she wears 24 -7. Absolutely insane. She has to wear booties over stilettos in somebody's house. God bless. Nobody else is going to do it. Whitney might as well. I won't be walking around in stilettos in somebody's house. No, no. Let the dogs out. Exactly. We get a peek into Mary's closet, which so we get a peek into one of the closets, which is a bedroom with just racks and racks and racks of clothes in it. And then we find out that her love of fashion stems from a trip to Dillard's. Have you ever been to a Dillard's? Of course I haven't. It made me think of Granny immediately.

1:16:53 She's also the type. I've driven granny to to Louisville thousands of times so she can go to Dillard's. I know. Isn't that funny? I yeah, that was so interesting and it made me immediately think of our granny and it was so endearing. But it's funny that it goes from Dillard's to like Louis Vuitton, Balmain, all these things. And one thing about Mary is as much as I hate 90 percent of her outfits, I love her wearing them. I do, too. I do, too. I think she's so silly. I think she's so in touch with her own style and what makes her happy and fulfilled. Because, of course, I love that she supports her own marriage to her step grandfather. I love that she supports it. I do. But I can't imagine being very happy being married to my step grandfather.

1:17:44 So if I could find any shred of happiness in thousands of dollars worth of. like Louis Vuitton shawls. Yeah, I'm going to find it and I'm going to get it. I feel that. I guess I love that she's in touch with her style and what makes it so unique. It's it's it's beautiful to see. Would I wear it? Not in a million years. No, no. But I love it for her. I love it for her. And that's that's where it is. Mary brings up the fact that she's left out of Cherie's surprise party and she does get into the I guess. Lisa and Meredith told her that they're afraid of Jen. Yes. And Mary was simply the wrong. I'm sorry. Whitney was simply the wrong person to tell this information to. I have a thing right now that I'm trying.

1:18:39 I have this idea in my head that I'm trying to work with as I continue to watch these episodes that I think Whitney is a very. important person to have on this show because she kind of knows a little bit about everything from everybody and she's kind of she has all this information and i i'm wanting her to harness it and like really use it for good i think she's kind of like i want her to use it for evil go on go on I think that she's a lot like how Layla is in Secret Lives of Mormon Wives, where Layla is also the kind of person that just starts knowing things. And then like in the confessional, she's like, I know all this information. I just don't know what to do with it. Well, I think it's because they're both incredibly approachable people and they're. In some ways, trustworthy people. Yeah.

1:19:32 And I do believe that about Whitney. And, you know, speaking of trustworthiness, I don't I don't know if we're going to talk about it. In regards to this episode, Jen Shaw's pissing me off. Why? She she ratted out Meredith's situation with Seth. Oh, we can talk about that. I I don't know what episode that was. I think it was seven or eight. It was. I think so, too. I. I heard that. I don't know if I was doing so. I think I was cooking dinner or something and I was watching it on TV in the kitchen. And I heard that I didn't see it. I was I was doing something. Are you talking about where she goes? You'll just have to ask Meredith. No, not even that. She was mad.

1:20:17 She was going off about something. And then she mentioned. I think she was mentioning how. Meredith is putting on this whole charade about her. Oh, yeah. But she was saying it to somebody like it wasn't in a confessional or anything. And I was at the thing about. The trunk show where she was talking about how she met the guy in New York. No, I guess I don't really know what I'm thinking, but she told somebody about that. And I was like, you've got to be absolutely kidding me like. Jen is just a bad friend. She's not trustworthy in the slightest. She's done that twice. She's done it with Meredith and she's done it with something else. I don't remember what it was. And obviously she called Mary. Grandpa ever. Yeah. So there's that. But there was something else. This is the thing that I struggle with with Jen Shaw. Jen Shaw is. She's so fabulous in so many ways and she's so cool and like she's she's a larger than life personality. And that's her redeeming quality, right? We're like you take the good with the bad. This is where I struggle so much because I'm like, Jen, you're you're checking off a lot of boxes that are going to like get rid of a lot of the redeeming qualities and. If she could just change a little. Actually, I don't know if she can change a little bit.

1:21:47 I'll probably cut that. But like I, I get what you're saying. And like that's I think that's always the struggle with Jen Shaw, though, is like she's like she's larger than life. She's so great. She's so cool. Why do you do that? Get out of your own way. Exactly. I think that's so much. And I'm sorry to completely derail talking about Whitney being. trustworthy or whether or not she is um but i think that's such a huge problem you said it best like jen just gets in her own way yeah and i think that like you said like her being so larger than life it's such a beautiful quality to her she has so much personality so much amazing things she's crazy awesome but like i think that she's putting on this mask Because she is so I feel like she's deeply insecure.

1:22:35 And I think that's why she portrays herself to be so large and just larger than life and have this incredibly charismatic personality and all this stuff. But like, she's so insecure within herself that when things get messy, that's what I think. She's so insecure that when things get messy, she needs to derail it before her insecurities show. And that's why she's constantly lonely. That's why she constantly needs people around her. Oh, this is deep. Okay. I think it's a deep problem that she has. Yeah. That's my perspective of Jen is that she's so deeply insecure that she needs to hide that with having the personality she does, with having all the people around her that she does, by having the friends around her that she has. And I think that's fair. And that's why at some level, even though I literally can't stand her half the time and even though she's absolutely insane half the time, I feel bad.

1:23:31 Yeah, I do empathize with her because that's how I'm seeing it, is that she's deeply insecure. Fair. OK, that's fair. And it's sad. It is sad. We can go back to Whitney, Whitney and Mary. Well, that was it for Whitney and Mary. Next, we go over to Meredith's house and they're trying to figure out what they want for dinner. And. Meredith looks at Seth and goes, what is it you want? And I just thought that was the funniest way to ask. I love her so much. I know. Well, he kept being like you. And Brooks is. What is it you want? To order in. What is it you want? And Brooks is like, I literally can't do it.

1:24:11 I. I love Brooks. I like Brooks. I think Brooks is funny. I think he's beautiful. I love his lip gloss. He's very cute. He's a very handsome boy. As in like he's 21 years old and I call him a little boy. It's fine. Little boy. Yeah. And that scene was pretty quick. But we go over with Whitney to her friend Sarah MacArthur's house. What a woman. Do you know about this woman? I don't. I know she's on her third marriage. Yeah. You want to know. So this is the same woman. Do you remember the very first episode? With Meredith. Birthday party. Yes. And she's like, happy birthday. Do you want to know another fun fact about Sarah MacArthur? I'd do anything for one. She was at January 6th. So Sarah MacArthur, I'll give you a little context about this woman.

1:25:04 And Emma and I have talked about this woman before. This was supposed to be. Either one of the housewives or a friend of. The. So. Have you noticed I haven't spoken since you. Since you said that. I. I'm so shocked. Honestly, am I really? Do you want to know something else? I'd do anything to know. This episode aired January 6th of 2021. The. The quickness that the Internet found out who this woman was is wild. So I was reading an article not too long ago about her being canceled. And she talks about this being her episode. This scene was three minutes long, by the way. Yeah, it was nothing. The way that she's like, it was taken away from me. And I'm going to like I'm going to get into that article one day on this show. But. This one was at January 6th. We'll just leave it at that. So they're kind of getting into the like the past with the marriages and everything. We find out that Justin's parents, so Whitney's husband, have Whitney and Justin's wedding photo next to a photo. of justin with

1:26:34 his ex -wife and then the ex -wife's wedding photo to her new husband are all just out there together and i get i get that whitney and justin's relationship didn't start in the most conventional way the most classiest of ways whatever the way that like I don't know that I'd be able to deal with the parents after that. Like I don't know what I would do with that. The level of disrespect that that portrays is so astonishing. And it's like. In the grand scheme of things, you can't control your kids. They're going to do whatever they want to do, no matter how you raise them, whatever, whatever. I think that's so insane.

1:27:20 When Whitney said it took about six or seven years for mine and Justin's wedding photo to get up on the wall next to the original wedding photo of Justin and his ex -wife. And then like, how are you so? I mean, I know that lots of parents -in -law love their. daughters -in -law or sons -in -laws but like how do you have so good of a connection and relationship with your ex -daughter -in -law that you also have her wedding photo with her current husband yeah i don't understand that dynamic that's wild i i thought it was the my my jaw dropped to the floor when i heard whitney say that and that it took six to seven years of them being married for her picture to end up on that wall absolutely crazy yeah sick and twisted then they start kind of like talking about well what's what's gonna happen at sherry's party and then sarah encourages whitney to talk to jen at sherry's birthday party and i just want to say sarah doesn't have a good track record for decision making really Between that January 6th. Heard. Well, when she said that, I honestly agreed. I was like, I guess in the grand scheme of things, if Jen is her best self when Sharif is around, then maybe it would be a good time for her to. In that moment, I agree. I think in the best of conditions. Yeah, sure. You can you can approach it then. I think if you're looking

1:28:52 at reality and who Jen shies as a person, if you think that was a good decision, you are out of your ever loving mind. Heard. What do you think would have made it better if it wasn't his birthday party or like. I think that was the wrong night to do it. On the birthday party. 100%. I would probably agree that like. In the grand scheme of things, it's somebody else's day. Don't ruin it. Whatever, whatever. I do agree with that. So Lisa and John take Jack and Henry to an aquarium and they got to do a little penguin experience. Oh, my God. How did you feel? I thought it was the coolest thing ever. And I want to see if the Indianapolis Zoo does this. I would do anything. I thought it was the cutest thing I've ever seen in my life. I started liking penguins after that. I love that. It was so cute.

1:29:37 You know, I would love to do that with dolphins. I know a lot of zoos do where you can swim with the dolphins. I want to do that so bad. Well, you know, I was. absolutely obsessed with dolphins when i was little do you know that and i very vividly remember that dear listener i had a literal collection of dolphin figurines the glass dolphins there were these beautiful glass dolphins um they would also be like just little statues little like just dolphin figurines and I had dolphin necklaces I have an incredibly iconic you did have a dolphin necklace oh and I have an I have it actually in my room and students can like they know that it's me and I have an iconic picture a school picture of me in this beautiful green sweater with a collar with the dolphin necklace and I have my arms crossed I look like a little businesswoman I'll literally send it to you and you can post it like on the Instagram or something we have it in this house I know we have it somewhere if not it's on my phone I love it's iconic and it's that dolphin necklace that really seals the deal I love that so much yeah so I would love to Swim with dolphins at the zoo or something like that. I think that would be so much fun.

1:30:47 Yeah, the penguin thing was absolutely adorable. And I do love that Lisa and John are trying to do things with their kids like that. Little excursions. One thing about Lisa is I think out of almost all of the moms, Lisa is one of the greatest in the way that their sons can do anything. And Lisa will be so proud. I agree. I agree. I don't know if this is a popular or unpopular opinion, but Henry's annoying. He's an annoying little eight year old. He's eight. I think I do think all eight year olds are really annoying. All kids are annoying in general, actually. By God, does Lisa love that kid? She thinks that Henry hangs the moon in her sky. Yes. And I think that's beautiful. Somebody ought to. Fair. So I do love that. But of course, earlier we were talking about how their work is always first. And I know that John wants to change that. But Lisa's having a really hard time wrapping her mind around that.

1:31:52 But she also knows that she's kind of leaving her kids behind. And she's like, every night I go to bed thinking, do my sons feel loved? And stuff like that. So I know that she's aware of the potential consequences of being so busy and so ingrained in her work. But I don't know if... The effort to change that is there, but obviously this episode showing she's trying. Lisa is someone else that cannot get out of her own way and not a negative. Well, depending on how you look at it, I don't look at it as a negative because I'm like, this is someone who is conscious of you have to do more with the kids like you like. And I think she's trying. And I have to tell you, Taylor, if I. It was Jack or Henry.

1:32:42 I would consider myself one of the luckiest kids in the world. Yeah. In the same way with any of these moms, if I'm being 100 percent honest, like. I all of these moms, I think, are the best moms that they can possibly be. And so I don't think Jack or Henry are on or in a negative place because Lisa and John can't stop working. Yeah. I do see it in every episode. And if I have to play devil's advocate, we are only seeing what is being portrayed on the show. But if that's what we're taking in and what we are discussing, I will say that these moms adore their kids.

1:33:28 And not only adore their kids, but adore each other's kids, too, which I think is beautiful. Like Jen loves Meredith's kids and wore Brooks's tracksuit. I think that's. So endearing. I cannot wait for you to see the beginning of season two. Don't. Was she like, I'm just doing that for Meredith? No, no, no, no, no. It's much worse. Much worse. I can't wait. I almost want you to spoil it for me. No, no, no, no. You have to experience that yourself because I want I want I want to see how you feel about it. Jen, I think, does get. I think she earns her redemption arc in this in season two, though. Well, that's good.

1:34:13 So it starts off real, real tough. It's so you get part of it with the reunion and then you get more fallout when they're like they're ice fishing in the beginning of season two. It's really bad. I bet that this reunion episode for this season would be so good. It's three parts. It's very good. Three parts. I don't think they've ever had that many. No, no, no. I don't think they've ever had less than a three part reunion. Oh, really? Every every Salt Lake City. If Salt Lake City. I think there might be one season where there's a two part. I could be wrong. But no, their reunions are good. Incredible. Is there yelling, kicking, screaming, crying? Yes. Incredible.

1:35:03 Yes, yes, yes, yes. I'm on my way. So good. But everyone starts to get ready for the surprise party. Yes. It's at a Topgolf. There's that. Strike one. No, if he likes it, I love it. If he likes it, I love it. But. It's hip hop. That's what really threw me. It's disjointed. Yeah. It felt like, okay, what are we doing? How do these two themes fit together? I think the party was put together very well, though. I think that it's very, very clear to me that Jen wanted to make Sharif happy. I do wholeheartedly buy that.

1:35:57 Yeah. So. With that being said, I think the party looked really, really fun. I would have loved to have been there. They started to have a little dance battle. That was crazy. I thought that was so cool. Sharif seems like he's very fun. Like, I think he seems very buttoned up. I think he seems. Like he's very, very serious a lot of the time. But like, I think when he lets loose, like that's where I really like love to see Sharif like be silly because like he's fun. He's very fun. And I'm sure that that's a side of him that really only Jen knows because he's he's coach Shaw 24 seven. And, you know, he's in the grand scheme of things when you're recruiting and you're doing all things, all these things, you kind of have to be this man. Yeah. And so when he's home and he's with his wife. Oh, my God. I love it when he is like, yes, my love. And like just calls her these beautiful little endearing names.

1:36:56 It's so beautiful to see that side of him, whereas I'm sure very few people ever get to see that. Right. So we got to see it. I love it. It was such a treat. Yes. He looked like he was having a great time. I love that everybody wanted him to have a great time. They were all feeding into it. Very adorable. You get Whitney. dancing on the floor. And I think there's something that I think is so fun about Whitney where like, I think she's a person who truly is very comfortable with herself. And she says, I'm just going to do the splits. I'm going to do whatever I want to do. And then I think someone like Lisa, who is doing the constant pursuit of perfection at all things, sees that. And I think she's just like, not jealous of it, but it's like, like.

1:37:45 She's having too much fun almost. So she makes a little dig at Whitney and she says that Whitney obviously needs a lot of attention. Well, when he's doing that, Justin's just off on his own little world, like playing golf. And I was like, I love Justin. He's just that is so funny. I do. Now, when I first heard in episode one, how Whitney and Justin came to be, I did almost immediately show a bias in the way of like. Oh, that's really. Yes, it's really dramatic, for lack of a better word. But the more I see them interacting with each other in the way that Whitney talks about Justin and her saying things like we're beating the odds, like it's I think it's very beautiful.

1:38:29 I do, too. I think that those are two people that are meant to be together and that the circumstances on how they met, if only it were different. Yeah, well, that and like, I think. Eileen Davidson in Beverly Hills met her husband in the same way where they both they both had affairs and like they ended up together. If you can be honest about that and you could say, listen, didn't meet in the most ideal of circumstances, but here we are. I can almost accept that. I think I can, too. It's not my place to accept it, by the way. It's your marriage. Like, absolutely. Absolutely. And Heather said. said this best in multiple ways where like um heather has mentioned in regards to meredith the meredith and seth situation she's like it's literally none of my business it's not my marriage it's not my business jenny even said that at one point too i agree um and then also in regards to whitney being her true authentic self heather also said it um in a i think it was on Justin's birthday episode where Heather was like Whitney is so comfortable with herself she's in her 30s she knows who she is and she is just going to do what she wants basically and I think that that's really beautiful and I think that in a lot of ways I really respect Whitney in this way because I do hold her to a high standard And she does meet that standard for me. And I like that she does that even being

1:40:01 younger than the rest. And I think that I just have a lot of respect for young, pretty, classy people that are also just really fun and true and authentic. And also that are in relationships for the right reasons and just loves people for the right reasons. And I think that Whitney checks a lot of those boxes for me. And I just continue to love her even. Even through the end of this episode, I'm still on Team Whitney. I love Whitney. We're getting into the end of the episode. Can we please? So Whitney is wasted and she decides it's time to talk to Jen. What a nightmare. She should have done that stone cold sober. So. Jen immediately starts getting worked up as soon as she hears Mary's name. Oh, yeah, she did.

1:40:55 And this tells me it's not about the hospital, small comment. It's not about the time that Whitney brought it up, which is like, I don't know if Whitney, if there was a good time to bring this up. No. But this was definitely the wrong time, right? I also think that Whitney went into it being incredibly confusing because she was so trash wasted. Yes, yes, yes, yes. And like she just couldn't get those words out. And if I were Jen, too, I'd be like, spit it out, spit it out. Right. But she starts hulking out. She starts doing the thing. And then she walks away with Lisa and. And as Jen is off with Lisa, Whitney decides that it's also the right time to tell Meredith that Jen has been talking about the rumors about Seth and Meredith's marriage. Which I love, actually. I was wanting it so bad, honestly.

1:41:54 What I do love about Whitney. Because say what you will. She said, you know what? Here we are. Let's just see how much worse it can get. Yeah. And like, actually, that's not the right way to say it. What I love about Whitney is that. Here we are. Let's just go all in. It's already as bad as she's already hulking out. Let's just let it all out. Yeah. And I think that it it all needed to be said. It all needed, especially because I've already said it in this episode. I. I can't stand that Jen had opened her mouth and blabbed about the Meredith and Seth thing, because we all know that Meredith was trying to keep that under wraps, trying to be calm and cool about it. And now Jen's just. opening her big fat mouth about it and i was i thought that was so rude and ridiculous so i wanted whitney to say something about it i wanted whitney to call her out and be like okay well meredith by the way uh she's not being a good friend to you because this is what's happening in in at some other situation where whitney is stone cold sober i wanted that i don't care i don't care how drunk whitney was because like i don't think whitney said anything That wasn't accurate and true.

1:43:19 Yes, that's true. I I think where the entire crux of it comes down to, it was not the right place. It was not the right time because then Mary or I'm sorry, Jen does the whole thing where she's like, I don't want to talk about Mary. Like, shut up about Mary. And she's like screaming, screaming, screaming, throws the glass, does the whole song and dance. Absolutely crazy. And like part of that, I do believe because I have said this a couple of times about Jen. I think some of this is put on for the show. I think it's like, do you remember you? I don't I don't know if you've ever seen it, but there is a famous episode of The Real Housewives of New Jersey where Teresa flips the table and does the whole like song and dance and like blows up a dinner because of Daniel Staub being at the dinner.

1:44:07 Wow. So I I think we're we're. I don't know that Teresa put that on for the show, but I think that was like that became an iconic Real Housewives moment. Right. And you. You're like in your head, you're like, how do I how do I make a viral moment? Like, how do I do this? Right. And Jen, I think part of that was put on the show. I also think that Jen's a little bit unstable. And so she's like throwing the glass. She's doing the thing. She's at a top golf. They're not getting their deposit back. That's the first thing I thought when she broke that glass. I'm like, someone's going to have to clean that up. Someone's going to have to pay for that. Right. I'm just like, okay, you're mad. Okay, we get it. Calm down, Gypsy Rose. You're mad. We get it. And so they're doing the whole thing. And then as she's storming off, she goes to grab Sharif. And she's like, we're leaving. We're going. By the way, it's his birthday. Yeah. What a nightmare. And so.

1:45:07 And coming at him so strong. I mean, then the last scene, he was he was dancing with everybody. He was having such a good time. And then having your wife come at you with that energy and that demeanor and that volume like. I think that one of his first words were, what happened? Like he was actually freaked out. Like you're freaking out your husband on his birthday. You did all of this for him, for you to show that you are thinking of him and you want him to be happy. She said that multiple times throughout the episode. This is for him to see how much I love him and how much I care about him. And then you're going to turn it all around, make it about you in the grand scheme of things, and then make him leave his own party. Mind you, in front of 150 guests acting like that, I thought it was the most embarrassing thing I'd ever seen on television. Well, so then you you you have that. And then, like, I don't know if it's during this episode or at the beginning of the next episode. She ends up in the car with Omar trying to calm her down. And then Sharif is very visibly mortified. And then Sharif Jr.

1:46:13 is like, what happened? And then he's like screaming. He's like, your mom's just drinking and being stupid. And like, this always happens. This isn't the first time something like this has happened with Jen and Sharif. Really? I know that to be the truth. Like he didn't say that. But when he's like when he starts saying that, I'm like, oh, she's she's done this before. Yes, of course. Well, you wouldn't say that if it hasn't happened. And what a nightmare. I I do hate. You know, after talking about this, I do hate that the whole thing happened. Looking at it from a thousand feet away as an audience member watching this happening. Was it the most entertaining episode thus far? Yes, absolutely. Absolutely incredible.

1:47:01 Was it extremely exhilarating seeing her Hulk out and throw a glass at the Topgolf? Yeah, I. I would do anything in her Beyonce outfit. I would do anything to keep that memory ingrained into my brain for the rest of my days. But I looking in into it, I feel so bad for everybody involved. Like it like you said, this was truly mortifying for a lot of people. That would be so if. And I like the idea that you have that maybe Jen is hyperbolizing a lot of this and just really trying to go crazy for the show.

1:47:42 I love the idea about that, especially because it's season one. It's Salt Lake City. We got to really amp it up. We're dealing with Beverly Hills. We're dealing with New York. We're dealing with all this. Put the Real Housewives of Salt Lake City on the map. Sure. Love the idea. I don't know if this is the way to do it. Don't know if that's. the way to do it is it the way to do it to get views yeah for sure maybe in the way of making yourself look like the good guy oh god did you do that so at the end of this episode do you still think that Whitney should have said that like do you like do you think that like It's a it's that we should have waited.

1:48:30 Like, what do you what do you what would you have done differently if you were Whitney? I guess, if anything, if I were Whitney, I would have not been drunk. Sure. Because I think that otherwise Whitney is really good at communicating. And you've said this before in other episodes with Emma that these some of these women are very good communicators. And I saw that in very early episodes. I think that Mary and Meredith are very introspective people and very empathetic people. I saw that in their communicating. Whitney is a very good communicator. A lot of these people are very good at communicating with each other and being honest and being aware. Yes. And a lot of them can take accountability. I think that Whitney could have done. these things a lot better if she were sober I know that she thought she needed her liquid courage but then she just had too much and then she couldn't work with it um I do think that it I would have liked the conversation to have been Whitney sober with Heather I think that Heather is helpful in those situations and with Jen I think that it should have been maybe at somebody's house now that we've had this full conversation somebody's house the three of them not a party of 150 160 people no because now jen just looks so embarrassing and she looks crazy she looks unhinged yes unhinged crazy and sharif is mortified at his own party

1:50:04 and that's disgusting i feel terrible for him and i think that jen should feel so humiliated to have acted that way at his own birthday party in front of Every single person at that party and making him leave his own party. I think that's sick. I so you are right. I think it shouldn't have been at this party. And I am right that I don't think that Whitney should have been drunk for it. OK, I think that maybe she needed it, but I don't think that it worked out. So sober Whitney with Heather, with Jen. At somebody's house in the hot tub. In the hot tub. Why not? They're having a good time in the hot tubs. Yeah. Keep the good times rolling. And of course, it got really messy when Lisa and Meredith came into it, too. That was wild. Absolutely. Well, so and I think we get into the beginning of the next episode. Lisa, here's here's the thing.

1:51:02 Do I believe that Lisa and I'm sorry, Lisa and Meredith said to Mary. Yeah, we're scared of Jen. Now, do I believe that they said some semblance of God, she goes off the rails and like, I don't know what to do when she's doing that. I'm not willing to do that. Yeah. A million percent by that. Yes. Do I think that Mary took that as she's scary to be around? Maybe. But. Can. If I put myself in Lisa and Meredith's shoes, can I see on some level where what I said versus what was presented by Mary, how it got lost in the translation? Probably. Do I think it's helpful on any level for them to go? We're not afraid of you. We're not afraid of you. Because then that puts someone like Jen in this place of like, this is what people are saying about me. I 100 % believe that Jen believed that. Yeah. Where she's like, oh. this is like this is the narrative around me and like i'm i'm gonna be labeled this person and like i think that's part of like where the craziness comes from is like how do i do damage control like how do i like and it just goes off the rails yeah and i think that at this point it would be good to pull mary in because mary's never lied about what she said i thought it was really funny the first couple of episodes where she's like Yes, I did say that she smells like hospital. And what are we going to do about it? I said it and I believed it. So what? I think

1:52:34 back to that episode all the time where she's like, yeah, I said that. And you smell like hospital, too. I think that was so funny. But she's always been honest about what she has said and what she's heard. And so at that point, as long as we can figure out how to get Jen to a place where she has. accepted what has been told to her by Whitney and potentially Heather. And now this thing with Lisa and Meredith, we have to go to the source. Now, Jen should not be going to the source. No, absolutely not. But maybe Lisa and Meredith, maybe Whitney and Heather. Some some collection of those four women should go to Mary and be like, Mary, what exactly did you say and to who? Because didn't she say it to Whitney that. lisa and meredith are afraid of jen yes yeah so well whitney heard that and we also have like the video i i do vividly remember mary saying lisa meredith says that they're afraid but But then again, that's not lost in translation. What's lost in translation is between what Lisa and Meredith said to Mary. So there's a lot of things that actually need to be clarified and need to be stated from the source herself. But now there's just now there's even more drama with Jen and Mary. I cannot believe there's any more than there could possibly be. And I now I'm sad because there's too many women now that are fighting

1:54:05 and I can't and I can keep track of. who's mad at who and who's not mad at who but it makes me sad that now there's a lot of people being mad at people because now everybody's mad at Whitney and I feel bad for Whitney I do feel bad for Whitney and that because this does happen to Whitney a lot you will see she ends up being kind of the group not punching bag but like I think it becomes very easy for people to get mad at her because and you and I have experienced this where it gets it's very very easy to to be mad at the people that are just honest But you mentioned that Mary's never lied about anything she said. And that took me back to one of my favorite quotes. Can I share with you one of my favorite quotes that Mary's ever said on this show? Could you please? It's. Yeah. She's talking about Jen's aunt after getting her legs cut off.

1:54:56 And I have it written down right here. It's. I don't know what you want me to do about your aunt. Her legs are gone. Why are you getting your legs cut off at 60? That means your diet is bad. You know, it's just like she didn't eat right. Like drink water. I think about that quote and I'm not exaggerating once every single day. I love her candor. I do, too. More than anything, I think. I think about what what are these women's best qualities? Mary is one of her very similar to Whitney. She's very comfortable with herself and her decisions. And she's going to work with what she has. And she's going to she's going to do what she wants. And she's going to do it times 10 and all these things. Another one of Mary's great qualities is she's honest. You are never not going to know where you stand with Miss Mary Cosby. For sure. Thank God. Wow. Who are you? Who are you loving? Who are you hating these days? In the current season or based on where we're at right now? In the current season.

1:56:14 How about both? Tell me the current season. OK, the current season, which is what season six. Oh, no, no, no. I meant where we are now is in what we're talking about. Season one. Current season. Start with one. Give us six. OK, season one. I. I don't have an issue with any of them. I love all of the women. I think the one that I feel the most conflicted about is probably Jen because she goes off the rails so much. Yeah. But I love all of them. That's kind of how I'm starting to feel now. I had some pretty strong opinions about each of the girls in the first three episodes. But at this point, episode nine, all of them have really good. qualities about them that make them very endearing to me um i especially love whitney if i haven't made that clear i love that i love i i love whitney i love i think of all of the women i think she would be the easiest to be friends with yeah for sure between her and heather that's i said heather would be the easiest to be friends with too i think heather is probably Heather's probably someone that I think is a very, very nurturing friend. Whitney is probably one of the most present friends that I can imagine. She's very present.

1:57:42 She's very intuitive. She's very self -aware, socially aware. I think, like I said, she's a great communicator. I think she's very, very much a present friend. That's also always going to be there for you. I feel like she's like that for everybody. She is friends with everybody in this season. Obviously, her and Lisa had a little turbulence in the first couple episodes and stuff like that. But I think that she's been there for everybody. Yes. Which makes me sad to hear that she's kind of just the one to put blame on the most because she's just trying to get. everybody to where she's at where everybody can be friends with each other as long as we're honest we're open and like we all have problems and we all have our own lives that have problems but then we also have problems in each other let's fix it yeah so yeah well how are you feeling oh yeah and then for me i agree i in regards to who i'm really not like jen's off her rocker yes and i can't condone 99 of it right it's been pretty tough so Whitney's my number one. Kisses all around. Kisses. You said this current season is six. Current season is six. How are you feeling?

1:59:01 Mind you, I don't know a single thing about seasons two through six, but I'm willing to hear all about it. You're going to learn a lot about Lisa. Really? And that makes me. I. Here's the thing. I'm always going to have a place for baby gorgeous in my heart. I think that this the season six is probably the season where she gets the villain at it. That's just very hard for me. And she has some of it coming because she's she does some really mean and rotten things. You're going to meet Angie Katzen Davis and Bronwyn. Yeah, Angie Kay and Bronwyn. And there, I love both of them. I love, love, love both of them. Yeah, but I still like all of them. Mary takes a break from the show and comes back, and I think that she needed that break. And you'll learn a lot about that, too. Love. It's a good, good, good, good, good show. like it's i i love it i'm so excited now coming from somebody who this is their first experience ever with real housewives if i were to also eventually start watching another housewives housewives what new york really yes

2:00:32 very quick new york uh miami and beverly hills In that particular order? I don't think the order matters. I think. So Miami is interesting because Miami was around, you know, Larsa Pippen is. Pippen sounds familiar. Well, Scottie Pippen was the NBA player and then Larsa Pippen is her ex -wife or his ex -wife. Miami is interesting because they took a break and then there was so much demand for them to come back. They brought it back on Peacock. And I mean, it was lightning in a bottle. Like you had like you have like real, real, real life stuff happening. And I think this is I say Beverly Hills, New York and Miami, because those are the three cities. Aside from Salt Lake City, where. Actually, no, it's like Potomac, Potomac, New York, Miami, because I think you get the realest of the three of those cities. Really? Beverly Hills, I think, is like is the iconic like. The pinnacle of wealth, but I don't think you get their real lives. I say that now I am doing the season. Lord have mercy.

2:01:53 It's like season 15 premiere with. Husbands watching Housewives. And I'm going to go into that knowing that like I feel very differently about this show than Scott and Jeff do. Perfect. But yeah, Miami, New York and Potomac. Amazing. Where's Potomac? Maryland. Maryland? Right outside of D .C. Really? That sounds classy, chic. Well, so the interesting thing about all these shows is that none of them were started as housewives. They were all like so Potomac was supposed to be a show about. Potomac was supposed to be a show about like etiquette or something. New York was supposed to be a show about like moms in New York. Beverly Hills was never supposed to exist. Dallas was supposed to be a show about.

2:02:48 Like the charity scene in Dallas or something like the business that goes into charity. Salt Lake City was just supposed to be about like businesses in Salt Lake City because like it kind of all started around Lisa's marketing business and beauty lab. And then I want to say like Miami, D .C. and Orange County were the only ones that were ever started as like this is going to be like real housewives. Really? Yeah. what a crazy shift yeah it's so like that's the interesting thing about all of it and i love i love these shows like this is like this like i like people are like oh it's so stupid i love it anyway amazing uh did you have a good time again i had an incredible time are we are we doing this again absolutely whatever whatever episode We're leading. We're leaning towards. I'm watching the next episode and then we'll do it again. Perfect. Gorgeous.

2:03:46 How many episodes are in the season? 18. Oh, good. Yeah. OK, great. Cool. Well, just come back again next week. I'll be your listener. Thank you for being here. Thank you for loving us. Thank you for living with us. Keep it bestie approved. We love you. Bye. Bye.