let your inner child go for a hot girl walk with Amy Dickens.

0:12 Hi, I'm Travis and this is Bestie Approved. I'm hanging out with my new friend who believes that joy is a form of courage and a... powerful uh act of resistance which uh is absolutely bestie approved um amy dickens is the creator of the joyfully you podcast and the author of 101 ways to spread joy uh and she's a coach and a voice encouraging people to create joy for themselves and others around them um amy i'm gonna let you introduce yourself and kind of we'll we'll see where the vibe takes us sweet yeah i also love i thought you like sticky note into the book So absolutely precious. I love your little self.

0:54 It's, it's incredible. You get a gold star. Appreciate it. Yeah. I'm Amy Dickens. I am on a mission to help reconnect people to their joy and their play as a tool of transformation so that we can become the version of ourselves that we came here to be by helping, you know, regulate our nervous systems the fun way because I've done like 10 years of all the different things and it's one of the tools that every single day I'm like, whoa. that actually works and more recently it's also dived into how can we create ripple effects of joy to create change in this world how can we you know kind of build bridges instead of more division and uh create ripples of change of like you know you walk into the room and that one person that's really joyfully like i feel so much better after talking to them and you know you could be like totally different kind of people but you're like oh it's just something about them i don't know what it is there's a ripple there you know because they're making a real single day If you're like really mad or sad or scared, you know, you get scared with that ripple. You know, you're like, I talk to my mom sometimes. I love you, mom. You're the best if you're listening to this. But sometimes there's like a fear ripple that can happen from that. Sure. And then there's totally like joy ripples as well. Nice. I love that. Yeah. Very cool. Before we get into deep, what is the last song we let you listen to? This is something we ask everyone. Oh, I love this. I was thinking about that. I don't know. I haven't listened to any music today, but I have been singing around the house today. And for some reason it's been little mermaid. I was just walking around the

2:26 house and like, look at this stuff. I love that. A little like musical one by myself. Nice. I'll take it. Yeah. Love. Cool. My last song was the Steve Aoki remix of Happened to Me by Russell Diggerson. I'm like, I'm very into that song right now. So, love that. I love listening to it. It's so good. Yeah. Have you ever played We're Not Really Strangers? No. Okay. Pick a number between 1 and 15. 12. 12. Okay. I feel like this is a really good one for you, actually.

3:07 What has been your favorite age so far? Oh, wow. That's a great one. For a very long time, actually, it was 12. Up until the last couple of years, there was a strange thing that happened in my childhood where when I was 12, I had this random year where I was just very confident, which I know is not... typical for like middle schoolers only unleashed i would like walk in the middle of class like do like a dinosaur impression like very loud not just like oh she's cute she's being like alarms like screaming at the top of my lungs in the middle of class and would just be like i don't know screaming and like it's just dancing and giggling and putting stickers all over and i don't know it's like this one little flip and i hold that year very fondly in my memory Wow.

3:53 That one year where I really knew who I was. And I remember that was one year where I always said like every year, you know, people like, when do you want to be when you grow up? And it would always be something like, I want to be an author or a doctor or whatever. And what do people want me to say? And that year I said, I want to be a talk show host like Ellen, because I used to love watching Ellen. And that's pretty funny. That's like the closest I think I ever got to what adult Amy is like now. That's awesome. I love that. So we live in a really challenging world right now. And I think your message can help a lot of people. Even if it's just like a reminder to like check in with ourselves as we're heading into the new year. So I kind of want to get into your journey. So you talked a little bit in the beginning of the book about how your journey was stark. your journey was sparked by a struggle with social anxiety, depression, and some health issues. And it kind of ultimately led to burnout. And I feel like this is something a lot of people can like really recognize in themselves. What did this moment look like for you when you decided to like make a change and kind of start this journey? Yeah. I mean, I wish that there was just like that one, you know, like shining star moment where I was like, this is the moment that the change happens. And then I, you know, made a change and I never, you know, like went back to my old habits, but I think a lot of us probably can resonate with like, there's a lot of little moments where we're like.

5:25 Yeah, I can hear that voice. And so something needs to change. But do I change? No, you just keep doing it. And it gets louder and louder. And I think the louder and louder was happening in lots of different ways. You know, the health issues that start happening, that's no coincidence. All of these things are also interrelated. You know, the brain body connection of your mental health is getting worse and your physical health is getting worse because you can't digest things when you're completely dysregulated all the time. And when you're not digesting things, you have no energy and then your adrenals are burning. out because you're like ah i'm just trying to like burn the candle at both ends and like try to earn my sense of worthiness in this world by what i'm doing and also doing all of the things that i think i should be doing rather than what i actually want to be doing because i just want to be laughable and i think if i do all the things that people want me to do even though no one's even saying this to me we all just like kind of absorb these moses you know I was just getting, you know, sicker and sicker, which that was honestly, I hate to say that was like one of the main things I was like, wow, I am like in my mid twenties and I feel awful. I'm really like was physically struggling, which, you know, sends you on a path to seek when Western medicine is like, you're perfectly healthy. There's nothing wrong with you. And you're like, something's got to change here. So you start looking all over the place, at least if you're me, I'm like. Sure. We're not settling for this. There was that little flicker of hope within that always said it gets better. Like it gets so much better. You're meant

6:56 for so much more. There was always this really strong connection to purpose my whole life. And it was really, I guess, awful. It was this awful thing. I would literally cry myself to sleep and I'd be like, I don't know what my purpose is. one person that doesn't have a gift or purpose like who who is it how is woe is me and i would like read all these books and try and like think my way through it you know doing all these quizzes according to my calculations like this and not realizing that my purpose was it in i don't know trying harder and like crunching and doing and trying to perform to be someone other than myself it was in letting go of a lot of that and healing and doing all of that and there was one moment where It was actually the day before the pandemic hit. I used to work at a grade school and we had we had a particularly rambunctious group of kindergartners that year. There's one that's biting my arm on this side. And there's another kid that's trying to get this kid that's biting my arm. And I'm like holding this kid back with my other arm. And I'm like, you know, like kind of keeping them away from each other so they don't just like absolutely, you know, destroy each other. And I remember having this moment where I silently look up at the ceiling and I'm just like, God. help me and then the next day the whole country shut down jesus christ oh amy be careful what you wish for so that that space

8:28 that i actually got of because in that moment i was still really struggling with like social anxiety and all these things It was like, everything was like taken off my plate. It's like, you can't go into work for the next two weeks and then two weeks. And you know how that went. And something about that spaciousness, honestly, of removing the constant, like needing to do stuff. It, it allowed me this space to breathe and say, Whoa, I actually completely want to change my life. my partner at the time. And I said, do you want to sell all of our stuff and move into a van with our cat? Like I've always wanted to do. And like, that was just a dream of mine. And then that just kind of led down this path of doing one thing, then the next and the next that was actually aligned with what I wanted to be doing. And, you know, that were like simultaneously scary and so exhilarating like that. Oh my God, I've been dreaming of this and following my joy is really what I started calling it. I'm just going to do. you know whatever it is that sparks that joy like in big ways and little ways and it was a very tumultuous ups and downs and heartbreak and you know all of the things in there i just turned into like a wacky and playful tube man in that i love it yeah so we did so did you actually end up moving into a van for a little bit or oh yeah we lived in a van for a year and a half It was great. I love that. Like, I think it was like a totally a little cocoon for me of like the version, the Amy that walked into the van

10:00 and like walked out of the van for the last time were two very different people because I, I mean, Hey, you just change your environment and like the people that you're with and how your date, like your habits are constantly changing that it's, it's a highway to changing into maybe who you want to be if you are really like growth oriented, but. Definitely you're going to become a new person and you're really gonna have an opportunity to be very grateful. Like to this day, it's been four or five years since, you know, that whole time. And like literally on the regular, wow, I don't have to think about where my water comes from. There's like, I can take a shower every single day if I want to. I can like, I don't know, like all of these little things that we take for granted, you know, like when we just live in a normal house, it's like so. nice to just be very appreciative of these really micro little things that I think honestly does help just fill that little joy cup of like wow okay there's a lot of things that are going really well right now actually yeah but I think there is something to be said for like this idea of like I it comes to like from cocooning for some people but I think like there's like this thing of like I just have to shed like all of the stuff and like I have to like I have to like do something because like I need some kind of like radical fundamental change in my life and like you it's like it forces you to get back to basics almost right where it's like I think oh god I think it was Casey Rose Wilson on Bitch Sesh was her podcast and she was talking about

11:32 how like I think it was shortly after her mom passed and she I could be telling the story completely wrong like but what I remember is like she went into her closet for like two weeks and she's really good friends with like June Diane Raphael and like June Diane was like I'm very worried about you like and then she like came out like a different person like it's like the butterfly emerges a little bit so I think there's probably something to that. And I think Marie Kondo, because you said sparking joy, and Marie Kondo's whole thing is you have to let go of the stuff. We have to simplify our space, and it has to come to a place of almost breaking everything down to its simplest form and getting back to, okay, how do we get somewhere with what we know we have to work with? So what did like the earliest versions of like this iteration of finding joy look like for you, like after you came out of living in a van? Yeah. Okay. First off, I love that metaphor of it as like letting go of the stuff, you know, like Marie Kondo's like physical stuffy stuff, but there's emotional, mental, all the other stuff. I'm like, I haven't really had nothing like connected that exact dot. And I love that. That's like so true that there, like I literally was like getting rid of all the physical stuff. all of like the masks and like old identities and just parts of me that I think a part of me is like, this isn't you like, just the radical changes allows it to be

13:04 a little easier sometimes. Yeah. And the emotional mental noise, I think Bethany Frankel and her book, a place of yes, called it like, it's like food noise and like money noise and like all the noise. So like, I think your, your, your metaphor is perfect. And like, I think I just associated it with, with like real stuff, but like, yeah, you're, you're, stuff like your mental stuff is probably a lot heavier than like the physical stuff you're carrying around so yeah there's i mean for sure but the the noise or the the the mental stuff however you want to call it yeah for sure like you have to get rid of that all of that and i mean i'm like thinking like you know it's like you're you're wanting to to like almost reach towards something new sometimes certain chapters but if you're holding on to like these old bags back here and you're like i don't know why i can't grab this new thing that i want You got to let go of the old bag.

13:53 You got to let go of it, Amy. You can't bring it into the new one. You're like, oh. We all have those moments time and time again where we're like, I don't want to let go. And then you do it like, oh, wow. It's such a beautiful release of a moment. But that limbo is very uncomfortable in between like, I just let go of this bag and I haven't reached the new one yet. What is happening? For sure. Yeah. But this new, like after that moment, I actually, the moment of leaving the van was a pretty huge, the big life change I'd say of my life where I broke up with my partner of 11 years. And it was like a very sudden, just like moment of clarity that I had. He's an incredible, amazing human to this day. I'm just like, wow, you're great. We're about to get married in like nine months. And that's just something I was like, wow, you're not my person. You're an incredible human. She's not my person. And like pretty much overnight, I went from we're you know living together like planning all the things to oh my god what am i doing i have to go and i just literally had my friend like drop me off in the middle of the redwoods with like a backpack full of stuff and i was just like walking through the redwoods like crying every day like what am i doing with my life yeah i just lost my like partner my cat my community my job all the things like what am i doing and but also feeling i don't know almost like uh like a movie character i think a little bit of whoa I'm about to start

15:23 a grand new adventure. You know, there's, there's like this hero's journey. I think that I'm really stepping into that feels like it's divine timing almost of, all right, like do it. And the others, there's pressure there of like, wow, I literally let go of everything. Like I have to make a choice. Like I burned all my bridges. There's nowhere to go back to right now. Like I have to move forward. There's no, there's no looking back. There's no holding onto any comfort. Cause I literally just. burnt it all to the ground basically in a kind way but you know there just wasn't any going back to it which it was a painful thing but it was really like a beautiful awakening moment of okay what would bring me joy right now and that was the moment where I was like wow for the past seven or eight years I've said I want to be a yoga teacher I'd look like I've been dreaming of it I'd been sat in so many different yoga classes like wow that just seems really incredible like I was totally pedestalling all of my yoga teachers being like they are like a different species I don't know how I would ever do that I feel the same way though honestly like anytime I go to a yoga class I'm like who is this wonderful creature talking to me like right I'm like are they just like angels like descended down like how who are they how who am I to think that I could you know become one of those So I said, I'm going to, so I looked online and I found one that I was like, wow, that one seems really resonant with me. I booked a one -way ticket and this, you know, pretty much long story. So I started booking one -way tickets after that. Cause I got to this yoga teacher training and day one, I said, well, I

16:55 don't think I'm actually meant to be a yoga teacher, but it was this like full body chills. i'm meant to be here in this seat right now and whatever i'm learning here which i think was really just a comfort zone of learning to share my voice because my journey of like i'm so scared to say anything to anyone i have horrible social anxiety like i'm just gonna like zip it like never be heard to you know god the universe whatever you want to call it being like hey here's a little here's a little you know uh journey of you can be yoga teacher because as you're teaching yoga you're moving around the room you're breathing you're like regulating your nervous system you got like a you know like a format of like these are the things that you're saying to the people you know it's like pretty rhythmic and i fell in love with it and i was like i just the time and then I started teaching yoga and I was like up there and I just wanted to get people dancing so then I kind of like start I called it flow gun I get people like dancing on the mat a little bit and then from there I just want to get people playing and you know it just kind of was this whole I don't know very I feel like a lot of times in life growth is you know slower but for whatever reason this year it was like i don't know if it was just like backlogged and all of a sudden it was like rocket fuel and it was like every month i was just like i don't know who i'm gonna be i'll be in bali next month teaching a yoga teacher training and then i'll you know be like learning the ukulele and now i'm a singer and i like lead song circles and i was just like doing all of these different things and following my joy along the whole way being absolutely terrified very constantly but also having like the highest

18:26 of highs in the most like grounded wholesome way not like a i don't know yeah drug you know kind of like oh my god no i think you were probably experiencing flow state where it's like okay like i'm like there's there's like confidence right that like you're you're gaining from like okay like i can share my voice like my voice is valid and then like I think you were building momentum. I don't think it was, I mean, it could have like backlogged maybe, but like, I think more so is like, it's like, oh, I can do this. Let's fucking go. The fact that you called it a flow state. I love that. I don't know if you know, Dr. Stuart Brown, he's done a lot of research on play and he, I don't even know how, he's been doing it for decades and he's found like fascinating stuff. He wasn't, I don't think even like trying to get into the work of play. He was just kind of like. researching i think prisoners and then he found this like fascinating statistic somehow and like by we're interviewing all of them that all almost all of them that had like committed horrific crimes of like murdering people you know like those like really like wow almost all of them barely played as children like almost all of them had like no um ability or experience to do that in their childhood and then he was like what's going on here and so you know it kind of like led into the curiosity of like dig deeper dig deeper and now you know he's got the whole like national institute of play and you know just like all of his research is dedicated to how is this really beneficial for not just kids but also adults and like what is this doing for our brain and one of the ways that he describes play is also really similar to flow like where

19:57 time just ceases to exist and you're totally absorbed in what you're doing and then he added he adds on with play it's also like there's a sense of purposelessness to it you know it's not yeah i'm trying to get this thing done or you know get like some results out of it it's just for the sake of it in the sake of the enjoyment and the beauty of it and it's it's a fascinating thing because we do really grow so much and i'm like i think there's gosh i think it's it takes 400 times to like repeat a new action to create that new neural pathway of like oh okay this is a new habit and when you're playing while you're doing it it reduces it by like i don't know you 10 to 20 times doing that thing then you're like yes this is in my bones because it's like all of those neurochemicals in your brain and the neuroplasticity you're just like yes we want to learn new things in this state whatever we're doing in this we're just like yeah that's the new me and it really is just highway to becoming a new version of yourself and it's just great it also was fun oh yeah i want to go back to the yoga thing for a second because so i've talked a lot on uh the podcast about like how i don't do organized religion like it's just not a thing for me because i don't like it um but like the Like when I go to a yoga class, that's probably the closest I've ever felt to like what people describe going to church to be. So like, I guess my question is like, how did yoga shape your

21:29 approach? Because I think it, I mean, like we can get into the woo of all of it, like whatever. But like, I think there is something pretty transformative about like forcing yourself to stop and just like, listen to your voice, listen to your body. And like, there's like a whole. like i mean there is science behind like the mind -body connection but there's also something very spiritual about it like how did that kind of shape your approach yeah absolutely i mean i definitely i'm not one for like any organized religion personally but i am a very woo and spiritual person i guess you would say yeah i definitely have like a a deep connection to like that ineffable essence that's beyond any what any of us could ever imagine but not like the i don't know kind of like this is the rules and regulations yeah But, you know, if you have flexible as your boat, that's totally fine by me. And yoga is it was it was like holding hands with a lot of other like spiritual like things that I was reading. I was just kind of in this season of like, well, what is going on in the universe? I'm going to read all of the things and listen to all the podcasts and just be very curious about all of it. And I think yoga really helped open me to. just like presence like just like being okay of it you know i think that there's in like western world you know we're really like we fill every second of every day with like thoughts or doing or and there really is something to whoa what if i just did nothing and i just stopped and i just sat with the breath

23:01 and I sat with whatever came up and it was okay. And the world didn't implode and close around me. And the deep moments of connection that can come through that and a million other ways. But I think that yoga can be a really beautiful bridge to having those moments of connection. You're like, wow. when there's so much noise I think it's harder for us to feel there's something bigger than all of us and sometimes I'm like wow I'm so grateful for like this connection that I feel so deeply my bones to something greater than all of us because I'm like wow I think like don't just be really freaking hard without it and yoga absolutely was a part of that path of getting back into touch and and re -healing that connection to that because i i definitely had like a lot of like god wounds and like church wounds of being like uh you know like don't ask questions and you know like that just like put a really bad taste in my mouth but when i think back to like little kid amy i always had a really deep sense of like there's something beyond all of this that didn't exactly fit the languaging of you know that i was being taught it was like wanting to ask questions that wasn't really allowed so i was like this this is you know not Not for me, but it gave a different avenue of exploration to saying, wow, there is something beyond all of this. And that was one of the keys and tools that I found to finding my purpose, which I think truly, I think all of our purpose is just to like be ourselves, like our truest self. And obviously from that space, there is a doing like,

24:32 you know, there's like, there's things that create from us being ourselves. But at the end of the day, it's like. we as souls whoever it is that we came here to be came here to create some puzzle piece i always call it a puzzle it's like there's a huge puzzle in the world and every single person has one puzzle piece and it's kind of like our purpose and our job in my perspective to figure out oh this is who my puzzle piece is through who i am and when i am that then i can automatically start to find peace pieces of like people that are puzzle pieces around me. And we start to kind of click and create something new together that we couldn't on our own. And that we couldn't, if we were trying to be someone else or trying to, you know, there's some other people that I'm like, wow, I'm so glad that you love doing that because that is so not how anything in this operates, but also there's a puzzle piece that I hold that I'm like, wow. For other people, they're like, wow, that makes me want to spoon my eyeballs out if I think about holding a microphone on the streets of downtown and like walking around getting people dancing. Absolutely not. But it's like my favorite freaking thing in the world.

25:37 But if I also, you know, hadn't let go of all of the masks and the fears and all of the things, I never would have discovered that. And yoga was like a stepping stone in the path of discovering what that is. And now I kind of call it more like joy. I feel like the. the leading people into experiences of joy of being in that light in that presence for me i'm like you know i'm not a person of like any one way is like the way for any person like you know what some people are going to resonate with what i have to say and some people won't and that's perfect that's how i know i'm doing you know like take what resonates leave the rest you are empowered to like take what floats your boat at any point in time but if you know being in a space of joy reminds you of who you really are if you feel more connected to like whoa this is me and and that shines a light on what you want to create in this world who you want to be if it helps you just like remember that little anchor into whoa right there's there's something like deeper inside of me that i feel more connected to if it's like a why for what you want to create in the world or whatever it is that's kind of the whole purpose like deeper beyond i guess just spreading joy of like sunshine and rainbows for sure every good yoga class i've ever been to because i don't know that i've ever been to a bad one but like the ones that really stand out to me are like the ones where the i almost call my the yoga teacher the professor my yoga professor but the but where the yoga teacher was like yeah take what serves you and like if this doesn't

27:09 feel right to you don't do it and like I think there's something there because I think this like and I think it comes back to like what we were saying earlier about like you you were in the flow state where like I think this thing of like okay like connecting to yourself and like getting getting back into like the core of you it like really opens you up to like okay like what comes next almost because I think that you're like when you're like defining that sense of I'm like I'm kind of making this up as I go but like when you're defining like that sense like the foundation of you like I think it opens you up to like okay like what what more can I do what else can I do because like I want to keep chasing this like feeling but it's not like chasing the dragon because you're building something you know what it like does that oh no absolutely I feel like to me what I'm hearing you say is almost describing the skill of discernment that we we have to build along that way because you because there's like comes this point where like oh my god no one else is gonna no one else is gonna and can tell me you know not even like a guru or whatever you want to say like no one no one can tell me what is the next step for me except for me what that's like exhilarating and that's also really terrifying and yeah build like you know because no one teaches us this for the most part of this is what a yes feels like and this is what a no feels like and this is and so we just do it basically trial and error and it's messy and it's like throwing spaghetti at the wall and seeing what sticks and you do that you're like wow okay that's what it feels like when i do it something and it's actually a no and i don't want to do that so we're gonna we're gonna fine tune you know getting able to

28:41 kind of slow down sometimes because i think sometimes you know we can overthink also and be like oh my god like i don't want to make the wrong choice and i'm gonna like make all the pro and con lists i'm gonna you know think about it for the next 42 days and all the things and you know the answers are all definitely within and there's no shape of that i definitely have them still i'm thinking of the decision right now that i've been doing that with i'm like wow okay make a choice yeah it's it's uh i'm like i think if we could teach that in schools younger this is like like let's like hold people's hands of learn how to know what a yes is and a no is so that you can understand actually this is my next step and this is not and obviously there's so many other complicated things because you know when somebody says like actually your no is a yes and your yes is a no and this isn't a safe space and you know then it gets all complicated and there's a lot of courage and all kinds of things in there yeah but yeah so i kind of want to talk about like so A lot of this comes to learning a lot about yourself. And I think with learning, there's also the growing. But something that I think a lot of people are going to listen to this or watch this, however they consume it. And they're going to say, okay, so this is something for kids. Play is something we associate with childhood.

30:07 And you talked about how these violent criminals, thing that they pretty consistently didn't do as children was play so like as we grow up we kind of stop playing and we lose that sense of like wonder and like childhood and imagination or whatever what else do we lose when we like stop playing as grown -ups yeah i mean there's so much i think that there absolutely is some correlation because we're the burnout you know like huge wave sensation that's sweeping the nation right now. It's like everyone and their mother and brother are like, wow, I'm burnt out. And, you know, it's like, no one needs to talk about that. And I've definitely burnt out myself enough times. And I think that there's like more and more and more that we keep having to put on our plates almost, you know, and I think part of that sometimes in my experience also is there becomes the like 72 item to do list of like self -care things that you also need to start doing now in addition. all of your work things in addition to like trying to have a life, but like, you know, you're like, and then like also sleeping and all of these things. And when we start to play that, like when we're not playing, we lose these like deep social bonds. Cause you know, we're also the loneliness epidemic. We're all like so isolated. There is so much depth of connection.

31:30 And so like, you know, kids, they become friends like that. because I mean there's lots of different reasons but one of the reasons is they start playing together and they're just immediately like laughing and giggling and I used to travel the world and it would shock me where I would meet people that you know we don't speak the same language but we do laugh in the same language because all like it's like just human nature to be like wow you're you're laughing like I'm laughing too I don't even really know what you're laughing about but because you're laughing I'm laughing and almost having these silly playful moments i would have with people because i can i don't know i'm very like animated and how i talk so i would kind of amp it up to try and communicate with people that I don't know. And you're having this moment, you're like, wow, I actually feel connected to, and we haven't even really exchanged any words yet. And that started planting these little seeds of, oh, there's something really here. And then you start looking at the research and it's just like the neurochemicals and all of the things, you know, it's like you get all this like oxytocin and dopamine and serotonin and endorphins and all of this helps regulate your emotions. it is really helps strengthen your bonds so the people that you're already in relationship with you feel closer to them and because you feel closer to them you can feel more courageous in your life there's like so much to that of when you feel alone you it's like it almost like stacks the negativity when you feel like you have like a tribe behind you even if they're not physically with you you can feel a lot more bravery to do the things that you really want to do but that feel really scary

33:00 because you're like okay i got people that are behind me and it's also it really helps us become a new version of ourself we really like you know like there's obviously it's just like it's nice to be to play to like feel joyful and like connective but it also is a really beautiful way for us to start stepping into a new identity of ourself of like it kind of helps just like make our brain that malleable neuroplasticity is like amped up and you're like all right i'm priming myself to have a better day to have better connections like we're constantly priming ourselves like little tiny things like you could have like a a you know negative conversation with someone in the morning and that's priming you to have more negative conversations throughout the day there was like a study like a cup of coffee it was a cup of coffee this one blew my mind they handed a stranger uh uh half of them got a hot cup of coffee half of them got a cold cup of coffee and then they you know like what they were like oh excuse me could you hold this while i tie my shoe and then they would you know tie their shoe And then they'd be like, thank you so much. And they'd walk away. And then 10 minutes later, another person walked up and said. Would you mind if I read you a story for one minute and then you just answered a couple questions about it in the study that we're doing? And they were like, sure. And the people who got handed the hot cup of coffee 10 minutes before to hold, just holding a hot cup of coffee, were way more likely to say that the main character was warm,

34:31 nice, he was funny, he was charismatic. And the people who got the cold cup of coffee a few minutes before said that he was like. I don't know, you know, like unkind and he was impatient and all of these like much more negative attributes. I'm like, wow, that's literally just a cup of freaking coffee that we're holding. And obviously, you know, it's like all of other factors, but there's so much that I think if we just lean into playing a little more, even just in our relationships, you know, I think that there's so much that I've learned about, you know, I'm very into like, let's like. communicate vulnerably like with our emotions and like it can get so serious but if you bring a little sense of playfulness to something it it just makes so many conversations so much more like connective people start to feel safe when you're feeling like oh whoa like this isn't this like really serious thing that you're bringing you're bringing like a sense of levity to it in a sense of oh wow like i can actually take this harder thing that you're telling me right now a lot better and obviously there's you know a line to tow with that yeah so i guess let's talk about that line so like i mean in and like how this applies to the real world you've got i mean consumer confidence is not great right now you've got the economy that i mean we're it is hard for like the everyday person to like survive in this economy um you've got a uh i

36:04 mean you've got a presidential administration who is hellbent on punishing everyone that's not completely loyal to them and it's it's it's making and i mean beyond beyond like you know government like you've got i mean like you've got violence that's not great right now you've got like i mean it's every single day on the news it's like where it's like a barrage of like oh my christ what is coming next like what like what is actually happening in the world and like that's all very real and like so for someone who's like dealing with that and like i think a lot of people are more sensitive to it than than others like how does someone that's like really dealing with like the impacts of like all that and how like the societal implications of all that how does someone invite play into their life when they're like look what's going on and i'm my christ australia last like what two two three days ago like what how do you do that like absolutely i want to say like first off i was completely that person for a very long time that was absolutely totally swept up in the overwhelm of all of it and just feeling quite frankly hopeless just like what is But what is the point of all of this? Like, how do you even do any of this? And that was like pushing me to a point because part of me, I guess, was feeling hopeless. And a part of me deeply has always felt this sense of like, no, there is hope. I don't know what it is. There is hope. And I think that's just like a beautiful, deeper part of me that I can connect to. But, you know, there's

37:35 always been those moments that I can definitely deeply resonate with. And I can definitely say that. When I tune in to people that are like overwhelmed by it, it's because they care. Like you deeply care, deeply like care and probably can feel a lot of what's going on in the world. You feel like mad and frustrated and like out of control, like, you know, like a sense of like, what am I supposed to do? And first off, like we're literally not. designed to be able to know like our nervous systems weren't designed to know like like what is going on in my community what is going on in Australia what is going on like in every single corner of the world and then simultaneously get barraged with it you know like during all of our waking hours like we're literally not designed for that so I think the first step that's really helpful to me is to design my phone because it's designed in like my screen life like pocket like kind of make a a moment in your day where you can get informed and have a at least one day a week where you're not informed where you're like i'm either off screens or like i am checked out for like i am just a human freaking being and i'm not like like Because I think that that's also part of our responsibility. I think that because we care so much, we want to create a new world. I think we can all agree that we're like, we want things to change. And we have a vision of, I want things to look like this. I dream of a world where we

39:07 can all get along together. I dream of a world where we can create, you know, climate change regulations and all these other different environmental things where people can just be like safe walking in the streets, being themselves. We're like, we're not bombing people, all of these things. But if I'm in a state of fear, I know, I know from a fact that I will not create any of those things in the world. Cause I don't like personally, I don't think any of us really have the power to be like, yes, this will change. This will change. But we do have power in like our immediate communities and the change that we can, like, this is where like kind of the ripple effect starts to come in of, okay, I can't change what's happening on a macro level in this world. This is not something that I'm responsible for. i can change what's happening in my community right here and we each get to you know hold our own puzzle piece but the more that we say okay i can a put my there's a difference between selfish and self -first one of my mentors she taught me this and it was hugely revolutionary for me she's like selfish people they don't know what they need to fill their cup they have a void and they're just like i'm gonna take anything and everything to try and like fill this void and i don't know what it is self -first people they're like actually This is what I need to fill my cup because I know I can't, I can't put your oxygen mask on. If mine's not on first, if my cup isn't overflowing, I'm actually not going to be that helpful out in the world. So if we like can kind of start to understand, wow, if I'm prioritizing my joy and my play that I

40:37 am not being selfish, I'm actually just seeing I can make way more impact if I'm in a resource space versus if I'm spiraling in fear, if I'm spiraling. confusion if i'm like you know and all of these overwhelmed kind of things it's a lot harder to think straight to um take action from these spaces to be grounded and then on a more like spiritual woo -woo kind of level to just embody the version of the world that we want you know like i think that there really is something to that like okay i'm gonna like walk in the world and like be the version of myself in this world that i wish other people would also do that too you know and and kind of embody that go first be the leader that goes first and and a lot of that starts to circle back to our screens because they're designed to be addictive and it's really hard because our work our social life all of it kind of revolves around it so having ways where you're kind of curating your feed so maybe there's like some place where you go to get informed, but maybe it's not like, because if you're using social, I think social media is great. I think it's a great tool. We get to learn things that like we would never learn about. It also has a lot of really negative, not so cool things. So, you know, if you can curate your feed to be things that actually fill your cup and like inspire you and like make you feel creative, or if you want to use it, like kind of like decide where is it that you want to get informed? How is that?

42:01 Use that little corner to do that. If you're like, medias for connecting use it like that curate it like that unfollow things that you're like actually this makes me feel like you know like this makes me feel like doom and despair and then with that i have this thing is i'm not sponsored by it it just has really helped me it's called a break it's a little device that you get and it has an app that's connected to your phone and you basically like can like boop your phone to this little brick thing and based on whatever settings you put on the app on your phone it like blocks all of the things until you go back to it again so like i can like go on my phone now and i can't get on instagram i can't get on tiktok i can't get on youtube which is also like helpful for you know if you're just trying to like focus but we all like just the the absent -minded we've all caught ourselves being like wow i don't remember picking up my phone i don't remember like opening this app but i'm definitely sitting here scrolling and i am now doom scrolling and it's helpful to kind of like pause that thing um to kind of you know get it from both ends of give yourself that big why why do you want to create a better world and that helps fuel you to say okay i my joy is so important in this world i know this world is absolutely crazy and it's like the most radical freaking act to say the world is freaking falling apart around me and i'm gonna say okay and joy matters because if i could even like connect to somebody that i actually disagree with hugely on big things but if i can connect with them

43:32 on a human way in a joyful way before they were like even like about to like go into like a meeting say they would most likely like study show make different choices in that room than if they're like i'm all pissed off and i'm whatever that is like you just make different choices in those two different we all do like every single human makes a different choice often when they're in a pissed off state than when they're in there yeah Well, I think this kind of brings me to my next point where like, I mean, the science is there, there've been real studies on this where like, it's like this, this idea of like joy or flow state or like what, whatever we're calling it, because I think this shows up differently for different people. Like it shows that people end up having more effective coping mechanisms.

44:19 They have better, like improved physical and mental health outcomes. Like, and then there's just like, on a scale of it there's just like a greater overall satisfaction with like your life so i i mean the the body and the nervous system really reacts to exactly what you're talking about i completely agree with you yeah yeah and you know i i'm like we can like chicken and egg it a little bit, you know, like, I think I definitely have caught myself being like, wow, I'll be happy when I'll be joyful when I will, you know, like, and like, when my environment's different, when the, you know, and I think we can all start playing that game, you know, like, till the day we die, pretty much. And I think that joy is something that will like knock on our door, or that it is like, well, I can't be joyful because of this.

45:04 I can't. And understanding, at least for myself, I personally think that like, there is a moment of okay, joy isn't always going to be knocking on my door. Like life is going to be life and life is going to be chaotic. There's going to be things that happen, but I can choose how I move through different moments and the meaning that I give different moments. And, you know, cause you can like kind of frame how you're seeing things and understanding, wow. Okay. If I'm, you know, not that we have to be joyful all the time. Like I'm a big, you know, like I feel all the emotions. I'm like, that's when people are like, are you sure? I'm like, yes, I do. I'm a big feeler. big proponent of the joy gym i call it you know it's like you go to the gym to like build your like muscle muscles it's like we gotta we haven't been practicing our joy muscles we have to practice what is it like to choose joy when i'm not feeling like it when i feel bored or sad or stressed or am in a worry spiral or i'm overwhelmed i can't even tell you the number of times that i have looked like a little sad sack like dragging my giant speaker to downtown being like oh i don't want to do this i'm not feeling very and then i'm like no like we committed to this a like that's very helpful but like and then noticing okay within like three to five minutes i feel like a completely different person of just yeah singing and dancing with a bunch of people and just having a joyful time and setting the intention. I just want to like make someone's day right now. I just want to spread some. Yeah.

46:31 Well, and I think that like, there's kind of this. there's something to be said for like just just go do it like just just go do it's the same thing with like going to the gym where it's like i right now i'm trying to teach myself how to swim and it's like and it's been an ongoing journey and it's like there are days where it's like do i actually want to get in this pool and have this man like in the middle of lifetime fitness watching me like like flounder around in the water and then it's like just go do it just just go do it like and like it like you feel better at the end of it and like there's like when you start to prioritize like okay like and i think you know you're you're to your point of like you committed to yourself to do this because like you're not like answering to like a board of directors saying yeah i'm gonna go take a speaker downtown and i'm gonna like dance in like on the corner of like meridian in washington and like go do this no but like there is something to be said of like no i said i'm gonna do this and i'm gonna do it because i know at the end of the road like i'm gonna feel good about it so i think there's a hundred percent like something there too yeah you gotta i mean it it isn't just like i'm like the spark's always gonna be there you just kind of have to do it absolutely and and there like really is something like what do you have to lose like if you're already feeling like not so good and then you do it and you still feel not so good like all right, whatever. But like, if you do it and you do feel, wow, I believe in like 50 % better, not like my full best self, but that's a huge win. Yeah. So for the besties

48:06 that are listening right now out there that are like exhausted with like everything we've got going on in the world and everything that like, like every, every responsibility that like every person has, I guess, what is the first step like to like in this journey? I mean, there's so many steps. I'm like, who knows what anyone's like, there's not like any one way of this is the first step. But honestly, a really huge thing for me, I know that it can feel counterintuitive. But personally, in my schedule, I like to plan something fun before I fill every other second of my day in my calendar, because I will do that. i will do that like i will put all the little boxes in my google calendar until there's like zero spaces left i mean the same way yeah right so saying okay before all of the little spaces are gone can i prioritize my joy in my play can i say okay like i'd like to go to choir or i like to go to dance at this time or i want to like invite my friends over this night for a pop -up or whatever it is that you like to do there's no one right or wrong answer and if you're so like I don't even remember what I like, Amy.

49:17 I don't know what brings me joy. I mean, the quintessential thing of what did you love doing as a kid? It doesn't have to be tit for tat. You know, if you're like, I liked playing, I don't know, wizards in the forest. You don't have to go play wizards in the forest. I don't know why that was first. I didn't play wizards in the forest, but maybe somebody listening is like, sure. I did. I played with Harry Potter. Yeah. Maybe you don't need to do that. Exactly. You totally could. I think it'd actually be really fun. Maybe it's just like, Oh, I could go for a hike. I could like go for a hike and look for. a huge difference that i've made i have started i go on like a morning walk and recently i started saying okay i'm gonna go for this walk and i'm gonna try and find three miracles and it really has expanded what my definition of miracle is that's for sure because otherwise i'll be walking for all time if i'm looking for like i don't know a leprechaun to appear out of nowhere um but it really has expanded the way that I'm looking at the world and just noticing, wow, like I felt like a little tiny eggshell that had like fallen out of a tree the other day. I'm like, wow, that's incredible. And it just creates a sense of awe and wonder. It doesn't have to be this whole big, like I'm like Amy and I'm playing on the streets, but creating little pockets of joy that you can even stack onto, you know, little moments.

50:38 I think I noticed for myself, even, you know, I'll be like ordering a coffee say, and I'll be in. I don't know. I kind of have like two modes sometimes. Like one of them is like, Amy's big and she's expensive. And then other ones like focus productive mode. And I'm like, who does, I'll be ordering my coffee. And I'm like, kind of like already onto the next thing. And I'm not paying attention at all to this human in front of me. Or I'm like trying to like maximize my time and be like, let me scroll through my phone and like trying to answer an email while I'm like, you know what I'm saying? And recognizing that I can kind of use these pockets where it's like, what, two minutes of my day to say, okay, let me like take a deep breath. And actually just connect with this person like for two seconds. And it feels so great to actually just connect with human beings, like genuinely connect, not the, Hey, how's it going? Good. How are you?

51:24 You know, that like autopilot, like that's good too. You know, I love that too. But the, like, you get curious about someone like, or like, wow, like what's the story behind this jacket you're wearing? It's really interesting. Like, did you make that? Like what's going on? Whatever it is, you know, just kind of. allowing a moment to get out of your routine and take a deep breath to rest, to see where we can work smarter, not harder is also one in terms of like the people that are feeling real burnt out. I'm learning a lot about that right now. I'm reading the one thing in essentialism, work smarter, not harder, work to add something to that. That's like obviously a very different topic, but there is, I'm learning to something to, we often fill our days with like little mini tasks that aren't actually moving.

52:08 needle forward in the way that we think it is there's like that one thing that we often avoid we got that done it would like move our productivity forward in a whole new level yeah nice um so something i've been i don't know if this has like bothered you to no end like in this like in our conversation but um it's something i've been very kind of intentional about is avoiding like defining what like what ways you can go about finding joy. Cause I think it does look different for everyone. Like, and that's something that like reading your book, I was like, there's a lot of stuff in here. I'm just never, I'm simply never going to do, but, but I was like, there is some, so you're going down to the middle of like an intersection or not an intersection, but like a street corner and you're, and you're doing like a dance and I'm not going to do that, but I love that for you. But I'm like, Oh, but I could do like, I could like make a playlist for like, like people at work or like whatever so i think there's something there that's like you you can take away a lot of things but i think that there's something that like something that you talked about uh in the book was like joyful risks because some of it does feel like you're it's like oh like can i take a jump can i do something can i can i like i think it comes back to this thing of like oh what like how do i like find like this person that i'm meant to be what is a joyful risk that you took where it like

53:40 healed something in you or like it it kind of like changed you in some way so many constantly all the time I I recognize I mean I don't know if you've heard like the rejection therapy kind of thing going on yeah internet where people are like I'm gonna like I don't know scribble all over my face with like a marker and then I'm gonna like order my coffee and like do like a ridiculous thing and like see like like just be like oh wow like people don't really care every like most people are just like thinking okay it's it's been like it's like a fascinating thing or like this one woman she like was doing that and she had somehow like it was like i'm gonna like apply to like a bunch of you know colleges that i think i'll like never get into and she ended up like getting into like an ivy league or something and now she's got like a seven figure business and she's like doing all these like like 22 and we're like whoa it's wild um but there's like some similarities there i've recognized of leaning into joy i think particularly sometimes when we're we are feeling so disconnected from each other and we are so isolated it can feel risky it can feel vulnerable it can feel like oh my gosh like my comfort zone is not to do the joyful thing like because the joyful thing is pretty countercultural like it's pretty it's not the norm for most people and i think that's why it feels risky and vulnerable you know because it's okay it's not it's not like i don't think anything that would like most people be like offended by um for the most part you know i'm sure there's always you know the odd bird they'll be like i am already joyful those people are

55:10 really humans to me when they say that to me cool you don't seem like it but it's all good you like it i love it yeah you're doing great job's done cool see you later there's um i think that that moment to notice okay like this is feeling like you look like in the sea of people you know i'm thinking like i don't know i go to like my co -working space where there's you know like 50 different people all just like zombies in front of their computer and you know you want to like create a connection and you know that risky moment that was like okay i'm gonna like try and like create a connection with a stranger right now. Like that feels, it feels like a social risk because they could say no. And like, we're all kind of scared of rejection and we want belonging.

55:56 And there's so much less of that. I think that we don't like, we're not like consciously thinking like, I'm scared to do the joyful thing because I'm scared of rejection. And it seems a little scary to face a fear of non -belonging that lives deep within my body. Yeah. The more that we do it, the more that it. feels more normal and it feel like kind of expands our comfort zone you know and I think that's a huge way that I've just grown all along the the whole journey of I mean I used to like I would just like kind of make myself like do it all the time like I would literally to the point where I would like wear my ukulele everywhere with me and like walk around singing and playing my ukulele just like being like oh people don't care like yeah nobody is like oh my god That woman is singing down the street with ukulele. We must like, I don't know, sing new things to her. Well, no, I think that like, and people are going to look at that in one of two ways. It's like, they're either going to recognize like, oh, this person wants to add a little bit of joy to someone's day, or they're going to be like, look at that. Like, look at her just like having a time. And I think either way you look at it is fine. Cause like, I think that like going back to the rejection therapy of like, like marking all over your face with like a crayola marker like i'm simply not gonna do that but like at the same time like if someone came up to me and like had marker all over their face like i'd be like okay like

57:27 some of this stuff is just not that deep and i think yeah like or like it can feel like i'm like this like radical groundbreaking thing and i'm like okay diva like mark on your fate like because like like i mean if like if i like get into it i'm like yeah this person probably needed to mark on their face with the marker because they were having a bad day and they're dealing with everything that's going on in the world like and i think it like you you like you get there somehow of like whatever like it's okay like i'm gonna be people you know i mean there's florida man out there you know doing all the florida man stuff so i'm like like we're not that strange yeah and i gotta tell you like they're like it's it's it's a sliding scale i think florida man is like the best the best one though where it's like yeah he's like that that man's taking the cake like he's doing it yeah but we were looking for an award i don't know if anyone else was like competing for it but you got it you got it um i have some rapid fire questions for you ready uh what's the number one song on your joy playlist oh number one okay well in terms of like joy playlists that i share out in the world um people love who let the dogs out i didn't know it but people love that song they love it like if i play it in the streets like people will like really gather and be like okay yeah i did scare a group of um non i didn't realize

59:01 it at the time they were a bunch of teenage boys i'm like oh they're gonna love this um and i was like why are they looking scared of me and then i realized because they didn't know what the song was no they didn't speak english so this random woman comes up like barking got it another language beautiful okay wow amy what are the first Sorry. What are the first three words that come to mind when you hear the word joy? Oh, uplifting, fun, inspirational. Cool. What's something that made you smile this week? Oh, something that made me smile this week. Let's see. Oh, you know, I had a really sweet conversation with someone yesterday where they just like totally saw me. They just really saw like, who i am and what i'm doing and like reflected it back like to a point where i was like i'm gonna literally start crying right now like this is so sweet i love it um last one if the besties on here listening take away just one thing from our conversation today what do you want it to be your joy makes a difference in this world i know that sometimes it can feel like it doesn't and that it feels i don't know like it's all for nothing or for like selfish reasons but that our joy i truly do believe from the bottom of my heart can slowly start to change the world i i really believe

1:00:33 that it can create ripples of impact beyond what we can ever imagine whatever we can see like you know you you can never even fathom how what corners of the world the ripple from the ripple from the ripple of something that you do in someone's day can create out there in the world and that It's so it's so worth it. It's it's it's so worth any like moments of like risk and fear and discomfort or, you know, the discomfort of having to break old patterns of like being yourself and like ways that you're like, I don't want to be this overwhelmed or miserable or whatever it is version that I definitely am constantly still breaking to this day. It's not always comfy, but it's worth it. I love it. this has been really fun i've like i've actually really enjoyed talking to you like it's been a wild week and like i'm glad that like we got here uh tell the people where they can find you Yeah, you can find me at my website, livejoyfullyyou .com. You can find the first 10 pages to my book for free on there. If you're like, I don't know if I want to go the full shaboosie and buy it on Amazon.

1:01:34 You're like, I'm going to try it out. You can get it for free and it'll go to your inbox. And if you're watching, this is what the book, this is the new cover. I had to make a new cover so that it could go into bookstores because I didn't realize there were certain things and regulations. It's a first time author that now I know. It's slightly different as you might see from your copy. it literally just came in yesterday but yeah you can get this on amazon um or if you're like social media is my jam at the amy dickens on all the socials you can find me just being an absolute goof you're like i need to totally revamp my social media page now to like be uplifting i'm your girl i love it Amy's new book, 101 Ways to Spread Joy, is out now. Grab it at the link that I'm going to throw in the show notes. Thank you for being here. Thank you for listening.

1:02:22 Follow the pod everywhere. Follow Amy. She's been really cool. This conversation has been a bright spot in my week. And share us with your messiest friend from Indie to wherever you're spreading joy. We love you, and we'll see you next time. See you. Oh, cool. That was fun. So fun.